Who would be king?

come December time

in Labour's heartlands that is

tut?

as in tut tut NR lefties don't believe in autocrats unless they lead a revolution first - then its game on

you know I speak metaphorically

yes I do and I don't buy into the conspiracies of whales or nat pollsters.... dolphins I'm open to

if only they hadn't fucked off

*shakes fist*

rushes off to invest in rubber

There's only one King.

Well, only one I care about anyways <:

http://live4liverpool.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Kenny-Dalglish-3.jpg

Pretty hilarious how Dalglish has to get on his tippy toes to touch the 'This is Anfield' sign :>

the race is on

David Parker leader?

David Shearer deputy?

nah, Cunliffe bro

the fact that the old guard is pushing against cunliffe is all the more reason to select him.

also david parker talking about being a party for working class new zealanders seems to be missing the point. Labour needs to be a party for middle class new zealanders. Let the working class vote for Mana and the Greens.

so it will be David then?

without the tea

But the Greens typically appeal to intelligensia (as evidenced in the large number of lounge biggies voting Green)

parties need to appeal to all segments of the public - we don't vote nor live like its 1883 anymore

thankfully

Or vice versa?

David Shearer looks like the front runner, according to most unscientific polls, but ultimately it's up to labour.

I think Cuntliffe would be a bad move. Everyone already thinks he is a dick

actually its up to a very tiny minority in labour

they don't do democracy inhouse... thats just madness

I thought they opened it up to the entire party this time round ? :o

Shearer.

Hopefully.

I want Labour to get their shit together and WIN WIN WINNNNNNNNNNNN

or at the least offer a credible performance come 2014 and wipe NZF off the floor of the debating chamber thus providing an effective opposition to National co-alition

no they're going through the motions of allowing party members to meet... get to know and clap their hands but the same old guard will decide

the team thats guided the party so well these past three years

#facepalm

Shearer looks like a PR dream against John Key.

I'm much more taken by Cunliffe - he has more experience in parliament, the old guard hate him (massive bonus) and most importantly he's not a baby boomer

the future is in the young up and comers not the old worlders

wait your last sentence contradicts your first one...

There is 6 years difference between the 2 age wise.

6 years that span a generational divide

on one side is you and your peers

on the other are old people

to be fair both are good contenders, wish parker was still in the running as well

but mostly I wish this was a democratic process and one that was done sometime next year not directly after such a resounding defeat when no one is thinking clearly

Shearer has broader appeal and that is what it will come down to. No point having a party divided. Taking the experienced Parker as his deputy would be a good move. He would be a credible loyal deputy. Cunliffe may be younger but continuity is always important and connection with Labour roots is not to be ignored.

The new leadership needs to devise a strategy quickly for moving forward and build bridges across party factions to progress policy development.

Not sure I get your continuity thing?

thats the one thing labour possibly needs to break - a fresh start, new leader and brand new strategy... we don't need another 3 years of them failing at bagging Key outside of the house

Brand Labour has a past and you cannot ignore it. It has been criticised for doing so and for moving to liberal intelligentsia and away from working class roots. Neil may have a point though when he refers to it being now a middle class party or at least needing to appeal to the middle class if it wants power and leaving working class issues to Mana or whatever. people need to understand clearly what it stands for and not some wishy washy cause of the moment stuff else it stands real danger of melting into the shadows of other single issue or cause parties. The Greens are already building as the de facto alternative govt and given a few more electoral terms in which to mature may well secure govt benches before Labour does again, if it does not re-focus and reconnect with the electorate.

the party has a history of which it can be proud - the past I refer to is all recent

some of the policies pushed by labour this election very much harked back to the parties old core policies and foundations... but as Neil said they need to appeal to the middle classes (whom are generally dicks), which under Helen they did very well - so well national has retained much of the policies they implemented and in some cases claimed them as their own

but Labour cannot turn its back on the growing 'working class', the under employed, the disadvantaged, maori and most importantly the young - ie their traditional core

it would be wrong leave those to other parties - labour should stand for all - fairness, equality in all things and underscored with solid green policies, sustainability etc.

the party has the policies, some great talent and a grass roots core that will and have worked very hard on the parties behalf... but they also need to present and be presented in the media better- they totally lose the media race and thats what counts for most voters as the (tv, print) media is where the majority get their news and views

this is an attitude they can ill afford to have

its not an attitude its a fact

but never fear National is doing their best to move them all to working class status

I think they just need a leader who is charismatic. Cunliffe comes across as a deceitful guy IMHO, in one of the question and answers sections he was totally out of touch/cold/vague and distant in his responses.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6068064/The-Davids-Why-I-should-be-leader

Shearer is leading the rather unscientific polls on Stuff and NZHerald.

it's an opinion daktari born of an attitude

I also think that a Cunliffe/Mahuta pairing will definitely drive away the right.

isn't that the general idea of a left leaning party?

pander to the swingers and risk losing your core

Good piece from John Armstrong

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10770511

DPF supports Shearer... surely that's a good enough reason not to.

The old guard in labour hates Cunliffe, surely that's enough reason to support him.

but Cun(t)liffe is the aulde guarde no matter how much he rebrands himself

Shearer is not

and btw right wing press seem to have all the best anayltics on the matter from what I'm reading, objective and not emotional/ subjective - as an academic you ought to appreciate that

hell, even Matt McCarten is agreeing with them

So after watching q and a it would appear that:

if shearer gets in we will have two verbally challenged leaders of our political system representing all that was good in the good old days of our education system?

cunliffe as a practising anglican and from the class of '99 (so last century, darling) represents a break with the past? really?

actually his t moniker is probably what they need more of right now so I'm kind of leaning towards that side

the 50 million saved lives bullshit is just that a la Mike Mc (as in maction man) Roberts

at a rough estimate I'd guess kiwis would respect 50 million buckaroos every time over 'saved' foreign lives when its their standard of living that's in the line of fire

dodge those bullets dave

This is unfortunately true. One (of many reasons) why the best bet is Cunliffe.

remember, we're not picking humanitarian of the year. It's about picking the prime minster.

Cunliffe has the intellect to understand complex policy, and the ability to communicate it to the public.

and it is Shearer

I have a feeling the right will be happier at this decision than many on the left

now the big question.... will we now see Labour infighting at news of the result as they are so wont to do... or will they unite and move forward

and most importantly can Shearer learn enough to not be a lamb to nationals slaughter in the house - which is highly likely - ie he's a weak debater especialyl when put on the spot (refer to goff - on matters of finance)

Yep Shearer is certainly likeable but from the little I've seen he doesnt appear to have the intellectual capability of Cunliffe. Mind you Key gets away with being a lousy thinker and relying on confident and simple-minded answers, so it might be a fair match

what a fuck up.

Shearer is much more attractive than Cunliffe, that will count for a lot.

There is absolutely no evidence beyond what the media puts about that Shearer is "more to the right" that Cunliffe, who after all did not distinguish himself as a left hard charger during the Clark government. Shearer is unspeakably "right" to some in Labour because he is much more interested in doing something about poverty in Iraq/New Zealand than leading a major policy workshop about how it is not easy to be cisgendered in the English studies department of Auckland university.

The main reason I supported David Shearer from the beginning in the recent leadership primary is because to my mind he offered a sane and common sense diagnosis of why 80% of New Zealanders didn't vote for us. His highlighting of the loss of the provinces (he has used a Mao Zedong quote to illustrate this, which I thought rather neat - all the Labour leaders since Kirk have been to shit scared of being labelled a lefty to approvingly quote a revolutionary) shows me that he understands that Labour should be first and foremost a party of Kiwi familes on struggle street. That is going to upsetr some people who since the mid 1990's have used Labour primarily as a vehicle for a socially liberal agenda whilst paying lip service to its raison d'etre of challenging the capitalist status quo, but renewal is always going to upset someone.

I was referring to the many on the right who were "championing" Sheaer, not the man himself

I hope he's not seen as a lamb to the slaughter by factions within labour and those whom govern