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[quote]
The fact John Key is so defensive about the tape only makes me want to know what is on it.
[quote]
I honestly could not give a toss eh. I'm more concerned about scumbag journalism.
[quote]
Yeah I doubt there's fuck all on it. As spike said though, why the fuck are HoS such pussy scumbags?

- Public figures
- Public cafe
- Making no attempt to keep their conversation secret
- No expectation of privacy

[quote]
the tape is a distraction... or the conversation would have been published

media frenzy whipped up after the two johns have public meeting... and now complaint laid with the police

however one brave soul has published the transcript and its DAMNING

http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/inevitably-2/


[quote]
Haha I bet its the most boring white rich man conversation EVER!
[quote]
politics of envy QT... boring old rich white guys have the best coversations EVER!

[quote]
Gonna give the don the bash post election?
[quote]
meh.

a) who cares

b) there are people who want to know, who are also complaining about their right to privacy, specifically facebook and associated apps.

c) it was by all definitions a private conversation else you would claim that people are able to be recorded and broadcast in any public setting.

d) b refers to you resist.

[quote]
Hilarious bob. Just hilarious... What kind of strawman argument...

FWIW I think that whole conversation stinks even before I knew of the tape. I am intrigued now there is a tape, I don't think that changes my position on privacy at all.

Election rigging is an absolute farce.
[quote]
Just to clarify you compared what I do in the privacy of my own home to be protected from the influence of private corporations.... to

two public officials meeting in a public place to discuss events that have to do with public interest.

retarded.
[quote]
I just hope this scandal gets this backwards-thinking government out. All my other morals about privacy are taking a backseat for this one now.
[quote]
but resist, blue team good, red team bad!
[quote]
you kow whats retarded - political parties rorting our elctoral system to game it

thats not democracy...

sad Act once stood for something
[quote]
bob said:
c) it was by all definitions a private conversation else you would claim that people are able to be recorded and broadcast in any public setting.


By what definition? A conversation between 2 public figures, in a public setting, IN FRONT OF A SCRUM OF MEDIA. Where is any reasonable expectation of privacy? Also people in a public setting ARE able to be recorded and broadcast.
[quote]
Is it illegal for someone to lipread their conversation? Since they did it in front of all those cameras behind a window, surely someone can do that?
[quote]
I know! Theyre doing what the extras on Shortland Street do in the background in the caf ...they mouthe the alphabet to each other so it looks like theyre having a convo.
[quote]
bob daktari said:
you kow whats retarded - political parties rorting our elctoral system to game it




thats not democracy[/

quote]

Sorry but it is

resist said:
Election rigging is an absolute farce.


Sorry but it isn't
[quote]
I doubt there is anything on the tape, but the reaction of Key and his head coms honcho Joyce is absolutely typical of their behaviour in government. Anyone who gets off message on cultivating a cult of personality around John Key s bullied and threatened, simple as that. The results of pursuing a policy of bullying anyone who stray off message on the one hand and treating well those that play the game are there for all to see in Key's high ratings.
[quote]
Brand JK is everything to the Nats. Without him all they are is Bill English. When you think about that it's not surprising really how much they'll protect that brand.
[quote]
I loathe the term Brand Key... a Prime Minister is more than a brand... or should be

oh look a golden arch

must have food
[quote]
Without John Key national are like labour.

Shit behaviour by the media basically who are now effectively trying to blackmail him into releasing info that was collected wrongly.

Im sure its nothing too bad but it will probably sound quite rude. The question is does the not knowing make it worse? My guess it is only people who already hate him that are getting upset over this.

Shitty behaviour all roun but thats an election for you.
[quote]
Well I have certainly had conversations in a cafe that I wouldnt expect (or like) to have sent to other people. In private I would be a lot more blunt about certain things than I would be to people in a public setting.

I wouldnt expect any different than for labour or even NZF. I note the action has been widely condemed by other leaders.

Also, public interest - I wonder if it is ok then for people to record labour party discussions with unions or other parties, surely there is same 'public interest' whether it is held in a hall or a cafe. Expectation of privacy is clear as they got rid of the media.

[quote]
bob said:
Without John Key national are like labour.

Exactly. Except English makes Goff look like a social butterfly by comparison.

Agree about the media trying to turn this around to their benefit. The reasoning employed by Campbell last night to justify a release was laughable.
[quote]
if the media had any balls they'd publish the 'tapes' - the law comes down to intent - was the recording intentional - if so its wrong... if an accident as claimed then they're free to publish the 'tape'

its in the publics interest if they discussed the election and the deal between national and act - remember this govt campaigned on more transparency and accountability, so one would have to assume our glorious leader has as he says nothing to hide (except Rodney)

two goons grandstanding and being dicks - publish the tapes and show them for the hollow men they are
[quote]
So much humbug and hot air hypocrisy from the left on this

Nothing new there

If it was innocently obtained it should and would have been deleted discreetly and not touted around the traps
[quote]
Here is a balanced view of the underlying problem

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10766010
[quote]
the media has a long history of discreetly deleting NEWS items

*shakes fist*

bloody lefties
[quote]
Anyone for cider in Sydenham? Ah there you are Jim.
[quote]
Jim should be facing charges over his recent abuses and rightly so

sooner we're rid of these old skool politicians the better, they're well pat their use by date
[quote]
Soon enough we will. Eh Phil? Jim'll fix it!

Then we can all look forward to Silent T.
[quote]
Foreign Observer 11:51 am Tuesday 15 November 2011 Because he can soak up what little air Phil Goff has in the last 2-3 weeks of an election on a useless debate over a tape. Classic strategy!


Quite! Which is why Phil who? Is now coming out against it-


LOOOOOOOOLLL
[quote]
Stop typing.
[quote]
I find that I can't.

Can you?
[quote]
hat tip to the listener's election blogging...

http://www.listener.co.nz/uncategorized/sorry-prime-minister/
[quote]
At last this election has got some real issues to argue over - conversations over tea cups jokes on billboards Neutral
[quote]
bob said:
Shit behaviour by the media basically who are now effectively trying to blackmail him into releasing info that was collected wrongly.

This ^

bob said:
Im sure its nothing too bad but it will probably sound quite rude.

This ^

bob said:
The question is does the not knowing make it worse? My guess it is only people who already hate him that are getting upset over this.

and this ^
[quote]
quote:
A lawyer representing victims of the News of the World phone hacking scandal has weighed into New Zealand’s ‘teapot tape’ debate, defending the secret recording as “good journalism”.
Mark Lewis represents the family of murdered schoolgirl Milly Dowler along with others who claim their phones were hacked by Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp.
He says the recorded conversation between Prime Minister John Key and ACT candidate John Banks should be made public.
“There is a difference between the News of the World hacking into someone's phone to find out private information and seemingly - whether accidental or on purpose - effectively a journalist investigating some political statement,” he says.
“That's something that is in the public interest and sounds like it should be reported without the unfavourable comparison to what was clearly a criminal act.”

-snip-

Mr Lewis says it would be different if the teapot tape recorded a private conversation unrelated to the election.
“Something to do with the Prime Minister's health or his family situation… that really is nothing to do with anybody. If it's actually to do with how the country is governed then that's good journalism.”


-snip-

He says Mr Key’s comparison to News of the World tactics was a “cheap shot” with little relevance to the British scandal.
An accurate parallel, he says, was former Prime Minister Gordon Brown who was inadvertently picked up on the campaign trail by a Sky News microphone describing a woman as “bigoted”.
“[He] carried on talking without realising he was still wired up to a microphone and saying something that might or might not have cost him the election.”
Rather than filing a police complaint, Mr Brown apologised to the woman and her family.
Mr Lewis says under English law the release of the tea tape would be very unlikely to lead to a prosecution. In fact he says the police “wouldn’t bother to open a file”.


Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/News-of-the-World-victims-lawyer-calls-for-release-of-teapot-tape/tabid/419/articleID/232827/Default.aspx#ixzz1dkCiBo4e


this

if there's nothing to hide they have nothing to worry about... so release the tapes and then we can all get back to focusing on policy matters - radio nz national has a wonderful web page comparing all the parties... well those that deem the public worthy of knowing what they plan
[quote]
RobW said:
bob said:
The question is does the not knowing make it worse? My guess it is only people who already hate him that are getting upset over this.

and this ^

As opposed to only the people that love him are not? Razz
[quote]
Watching Key try to have his cake and eat it on this is pretty amusing Very Happy
[quote]
Very Happy
[quote]
Oh, and before the right gets all uppity with me, I KNOW THIS IS NOT ENTIRELY ACCURATE, THANKS.
[quote]
"Teflon is one mm thick and when it's gone it's gone"
[quote]
jesus spike... that is totally inaccurate... WTF Key's an enormous fancy hat man

caps are the headwear of working class scum
[quote]
Is there anything more cringeworthy than a politician refusing to engage the question and just spurting out soundbites...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10766363
[quote]
Fuckin hilarious. But on the other hand, it's given him an excuse to weasel out of questions over TPPA.
[quote]
TPPA is REAL important... given what we could be served, shame on our leader...

and how dare the media ask questions... its as if thats their role

[quote]
Nationals goals for next term:

Privatise ACC.
TPPA to get rid of Pharmac.

You heard it here first.
[quote]
I didn't hear it here first actually, it's been telegraphed for fucking months (years?) now Razz
[quote]
Can't believe Nationals new welfare policy, how can they possibly think it will have long term benefits.

a) Guy goes for a job, fails a drug test or refuses (I am totally against workplace drug testing but that's another story).
b) Benefit gets cut off because he fails/refuses.
c) Needs money, where does he get it from? Still probably has an issue with drugs.
d) What happens next ? :>

Put another way: How much money a year does a benefit cost? How much does it cost to imprison someone for a year?
[quote]
the welfare policy as a whole has been well recieved... for nats.

I'm not a fan but i'm not really worried about the drug testing thing. If they are actually looking for work then theyre limiting their options by taking drugs. I would suggest that helping them kick the dependency would be a better approach than kicking them off the benefit. The unemployment benefit is for people actively looking for work if, some would rather take drugs than get work then im not sure they should be rewarded. (actual dependency aside)

That said I think we all know a small number of people who smoke weed and bum around, im not sure funding that particular group(small though it may be) is good policy.
[quote]
theres always the big kahuna
[quote]
Lol, like the dole can fund a decent drug habit. Laughing
[quote]
so what was on the tape exactly?
Winnie knows!
how come Winnie knows?
[quote]
Fuck I reckon... the policy is just incredibly lame electioneering and will do nothing to get people into jobs (or reduce drug use for that matter)
[quote]
Totes ridic
[quote]
gummi_bear said:
Fuck I reckon... the policy is just incredibly lame electioneering and will do nothing to get people into jobs (or reduce drug use for that matter)


This. It's just typical "dole bludgers are lazy drug taking porn watching car stealing niggers" right bullshit.
[quote]
What a LOL looking at the two Johns squirming

And as for nu look Banksie WTF?
[quote]
peat said:
so what was on the tape exactly?
Winnie knows!
how come Winnie knows?


Are you for real? Everyone 'knows'. The noes have it.
[quote]
wow just wow
[quote]
hahahahaha this thing just keeps getting better Very Happy
[quote]
You guys know how the police roll when busting out search warrants relating to digital data? There's pretty much no such thing as specificity when it comes to digital data, as there is with other warrants.

Rough example - police have a search warrant for your house, looking for say...a stolen 60" TV. They can look anywhere a 60" TV might be. They can't search your sock drawer (unless the warrant also specified the remote, which could hide in a sock drawer).

They come in with a search warrant looking for digital file X, then their general modus operandi is to confiscate EVERYTHING in the house that could store that data. Your laptop, your desktop, your server, your iPhone and your external hard drives. All your burnt DVD's. They can (and do) take EVERYTHING.

One wonders if they'll be doing such things at the offices of Radio NZ, TVNZ et al, or if they just save that treatment for citizens.

The idea of police doing that and having access to a reporters notes/contacts archive is rather concerning.
[quote]
The police must be hating all of this... so so very much - I almost feel sorry for them

no way they'd take everything from a media org... Prime Ministers come and go as does the ruling party of the day... the media however
[quote]
Mr Key has been asked if this is a good use of police time Laughing
[quote]
This is now turning into a PR disaster for Key and serve him right for supping with that sap made over.

Whosever idea it was can rest assured that there will be consequences_

Oh and looks like there WAS a security lapse after all.

High Fives all round.
[quote]
3 years of careful media management... up in smoke

he best get on a plane and grovel for a photo op with his number one black buddy obama STAT

[quote]
Paging Simon Power

Your invaluable services required under urgency
[quote]
Jesus, what an absolute fucking waste of police resource. None of the media outlets have even said they are releasing the tape.

Where's the left version of Whale Oil when you need them Razz
[quote]
http://thestandard.org.nz/

get in there son
[quote]
gummi_bear said:
hahahahaha this thing just keeps getting better Very Happy


I don't know about 'better' but it keeps getting something

Peters now claiming a big 'reveal'...

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=209189
[quote]
If peters somehow leverages this shit into a poll bump/ return to parliament there is no face and palm big enough to express my dismay.
[quote]
Much as I dislike the idea of Peters rising from the dead, I'd rather have him taking votes off National than the John Brash Duo of Corned Beef.
[quote]
Winston adds life to our political discourse... bash and co suck life out of babies

I know which nutbar I'd rather in govt
[quote]
I dont understand why he would militantly turn on the media, the people who have made his shit shine so much !

It's like campaign 101.
[quote]
Our collective safety is in danger. I won't be happy until I see the counter-terrorism boys on the streets. And I want a new law under urgency. It's time for Key to step up and show he's not the man to make into a fool
[quote]
as parliament isn't sitting can he not just declare himself king - with the gov gen's approval of course?
[quote]
hahahahaha Winston Peters is such a fkn boss sometimes Very Happy

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=209189
[quote]
He should just make up some shit, he should say "I heard he said he wants to tax the poor people more than the rich and reverse the tax structure to trickle up"

Then in order to prove that didnt happen the tape would have to be released.

Another thing that has pissed me off that someone just reminded me of:

"I just think it's repulsive Key used a family's trauma over their suicidal son as an analogy, and then has refused to apologise to them."
[quote]
There are certainly qualities in Winston Peters I admire, however.. I don't believe they are the same qualities that are desirable for an MP!
[quote]
I actually got my times all mixed up when I read that article... he's already spoken about it I think...
[quote]
resist said:
Another thing that has pissed me off that someone just reminded me of:

"I just think it's repulsive Key used a family's trauma over their suicidal son as an analogy, and then has refused to apologise to them."


Except it wasn't a real family he was talking about, it was just a hypothetical thing he made up, wasn't it?
[quote]
There really is no escape for the nats and Jonkey on this one. His/their campaign is personality based and he'll be judged on his handling of this and what it reveals to us of his personality.

So far not looking good on crisis management front. A crisis all of his own making.

Dohhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!
[quote]
RNZ are to be served a search warrent within the next 48 hrs but have said they will refuse and legally fight it
[quote]
[quote]
and LOL winnie boohoo was only last week lamenting lack of media attention


what a difference a day makes...
[quote]
kris_b said:
resist said:
Another thing that has pissed me off that someone just reminded me of:

"I just think it's repulsive Key used a family's trauma over their suicidal son as an analogy, and then has refused to apologise to them."


Except it wasn't a real family he was talking about, it was just a hypothetical thing he made up, wasn't it?


and when given the chance to back down or differ attention from his ill chosen words....

quote:
He stood by his comments comparing the recording to News of the World tactics and his comments earlier in the week about how, if he consented to the publishing of the tape, it could in some circumstances lead to suicide.

But Mr Key did not repeat his suicide comments today saying only that "it would lead to bad outcomes".

In response to a claim that suicide support groups have found his comments offensive and asked for an apology Mr Key said "I feel very strongly about the principle involved."
herald

a principled man.... but now to find what the principle is... as it seems to be moving

dynamic it is
[quote]
OneHappy said:
RNZ are to be served a search warrent within the next 48 hrs but have said they will refuse and legally fight it


figured they would

saga continues to erode support for Nats till election day unless damage control sees them releasing it soon and then reprised after election if they don't

that is unless new law rushed through under urgency hurr hurr
[quote]
resist said:
I dont understand why he would militantly turn on the media, the people who have made his shit shine so much

It's like campaign 101.


live by the media die by the media fire

I must say I am rather enjoying the implosion - all rather entertaining

John Key rebranded Don Key

*grabs popcorn ready for 6 o'clock entertainment hour*
[quote]
Dunno what a search warrant hopes to discover other than the HoS sent the audio file to other people. If it turned out there was a law broken then that would be the proof they needed of sharing it.

That said, it is very weird that this has gone on... These guys aren't fools so either there is something tasty on the tapes they don't want out there or there isn't and they're lining certain critics up to look like fools for pushing the point so much later on. (they'll try that regardless of the content)

As Resist said above, if people wanted they could just make up stuff about the tapes and they'd almost have to get released to show otherwise.

Wonder why no-one has asked the person who recorded why he needed to change his name. I got told he had a string of dishonesty crimes behind him (not that the info could be considered overly reliable) which wouldn't bode very well in terms of denying he did it deliberately.
[quote]
The latest from Key is hilarious, he suggested the drop in crime rate recently means the police have "spare time" to investigate his claims.
[quote]
the past of the cameraman was news yesterday rob- as usual from political fools the man not ball being played (refer to Stephenson over Afghanistan, the beneficiaries over the training allowance et al - a bad PR strategy)

the critics (professional journalists) will not look like fools, they control the narrative way more than any single political party... and are best not fucked with.... they're not on 3 year contracts dictated to by a very stupid and fickle public

At this point most media types will have heard the tapes - its a caring sharing community... and are loving every second of this - all the more reason for National to have played a different hand, not go all in on a bluff (apologies for the sporting reference... I shall now go and cut myself)
[quote]
Key's craftiness is not to be underestimated - this attention creating diversion has allowed him to swiftly turn the tables and ram home the message that the Police are idle and ready to pounce upon crime.

It's like a retreat that draws enemy troops into a pincer of death.

Master strategy at its finest
[quote]
aren't they promising more police...

time for a mission accomplished moment

and a montage
[quote]
God I love this! But don't think it's really going to change anything come election night. Think there's a poll out tonight on TVNZ.
[quote]
Labour down to a ten year low.

LOL

Greens up though. Happy about that.
[quote]
The scary thing about the polls, is that the last few polls have suggested that national will have enough to govern alone

I just fear that'll result in the Nats taking a big leap to the right.
[quote]
more right

quote:
National has huge support for one of its most draconian new law and order policies - the power to keep someone in prison after serving his or her sentence if the prisoner is deemed dangerous enough.
herald

the teapot is destorying any chance national may have of an outright win (anyone really belive the pools?)... worse for them if act loses epsom then shit got real interesting for them trying to form a govt
[quote]
and small changes in voting patterns could have large consequences
[quote]
bob daktari said:
more right

quote:
National has huge support for one of its most draconian new law and order policies - the power to keep someone in prison after serving his or her sentence if the prisoner is deemed dangerous enough.


Even a majority of Labour voters support that so not really a 'right' issue.

[quote]
There's nothing wrong with that law imo...