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[quote]
Just a chat discussion that took place, if you would like to read, there are some good points in there about violence and some different viewpoints.
Firstly i have taken away the names and left initials so noone i have quoted will get mad at me. I have cut and pasted the parts i wanted to but if you want the whole log just email me at Serendipity@dancenet.co.nz.
I also had to fix up grammar and puncuation cause the chat took place at Mon Feb 04 02:32:19 2002
Serendipity@dancenet.co.nz.


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EVERYONE PLEASE BE CAREFUL
I WOULDN'T WANT ANY OF YOU GUYS HAVING IT HAPPEN TO YOU
u see wot happened to d seren?
what did happen to d ?
what happened to d?
* Seren is scared

car jacked
fuck

she's fine
when?
where?*
P- blames not only the lack of police numbers and resources but also the poor attitude of police in general

I'm talking 'bout prevention aswell, t
dimi is lucky they didn't take her

it shouldn't have happened in the first place, ideally.

they can have more numbers around, make their presence felt and stop
theres lots of things contributing to it 'p' to blame the police isnt really fair
tho i do agree

I'm not blaming it ALL on the police

there's a general lack of morals and also a willingness for violence by too many ppl which I may never understand
some of its cultural
most of it is sheer stupidity - influence of peers and alcohol

explain, b
i say this carefully, but islander culture includes alot more violence than most europeans
you are right BOB
parents need to educated
to many people without jobs money and morals with nothing to do but go into town on a Friday or Saturday get drunk and cause trouble
but also socioeconomic
lack of parental supervision and education
meth amphetimine is also causing particulary violent crime
both for robbery to pay for adictions and the violent comedowns
hows that b? due to burglaries and stuff

I can't understand how socioeconomic status should affect tendency towards violence
i believe its PRIDE- one can build a name /rep for themselves associated through fighting and violence
ive never seen a violent comedown of meth and i should know
feeling of helplessness p
only cos im the straight one
frustration less care
d ive seen some real bad things
* Seren is so glad that b/f kicked guys ass
but is sad he is in hospital
people flipping out and smashing things

i believe its PRIDE- one can build a name /rep for themselves associated through fighting and violence <--I can't see any sense in this in real life
*** Seren is so glad that b/f licked her ass
people who are violent anyway are worse on meth
that was heavy editing i know
but people who dont have a violent bone in their body arent neccesarily going to go on a window smashing rampage
opps ---- ok pfunkee - my grammer and puncation is bad in that sentence
Culture- i think pride stems deeply in island culture
this is a very serious discussion for biggie,
im quite enjoying it really

as it does in any culture, really.
some people mistake fear for respect
it happens sometimes
* T finks ak is gonna be full of fuckin crackaddicts and shit in a few years and noone will b safe :O
or cant get respect and look for fear
* P is not gunna be in AK in a few years
fuck
P- i think more in Samoan culture, - island mentality is all about pride and not lossing face to anyone
people who think fear=respect will never live to be old
losing* - my grammer spelling is that of fob cuntry
m: it can be psycological aswell as physical
Smile

pride and not lossing face to anyone <--the problem is, that "losing face" means something different to some ppl
m- not backing down=respect thats where some faggots have it wrong with thinking they can instal fear to get their way- or feel better about themselves
yes p Smile i agree

to ppl I know, avoiding the fight is what matters, to fight = to lose face
uh huh
thats where island culture takes over (is different)

I disagree to some extent
- i think to walk away is to be a man in western society
Samoan totally different
I agree with you seren but sometimes
sometimes there is no options
but i don't want to speak on behalf of every islander because i know......is not the type to confront or pick a fight
and then I face the fact
its me or himm

Should New Zealand be letting ppl into the country from a society where violence is the best option in their culture??
P I think your out of your legaue hommes
i think in knowing my b/f and his mates- its about if someone is in the wrong and is threathening you then by all means GO AHEAD

howso, m?
nah m- its all good
p that statement doesnt really work well
i am learning from p Smile

howso, b?
should we be letting a company that uses sweatshops sell there goods in NZ (nike)

there's no harm to the country in that b
takes away jobs from nzers?
ok now you are questioning what is harmful to our society
seren what woulda happened if u had pulled over, let the dickheads pass and then kept driving
fuck this convesation
I'm off
seeU

bye mush
T they ran up to us

seren what woulda happened if ur boyfriend had pulled over, let the dickheads pass and then kept driving <--pretty much the point, really.
all im saying P is it would be very hard to say to someone we cant let you into the country cos your culture has a propensity to violence
T i was driving!!!!!!!!!!!!!

of course it would be hard
In the situation we were in i would say avoidance would have been impossible
and it would be very politically damaging to implement a law like that
nooo

In the situation we were in i would say avoidance would have been impossible <--BULLSHIT
p calm down
you werent there
QUEEN STREET IS PACKED

yeah, its obviously a ridiculously idealistic law

you pulled up a side street seren
FUCKERS ARE TRYING TO RAM CAR INTO MY CAR

Oh I'm calm
sorry

I just strongly disagreed.....
what would you have done??
keep driving and have them crash into you?
ive seen white guys do similar things
look at america for random white violence

can't say without being there, seren.
p blaming seren for what happened isnt right

did I, b?

I don;t think it was seren's fault at all
i continued to drive from victoria street lights to d street (side road) they continued to drive speed and brake right up my rear
theres certain things you can do to help stop yourself from getting in a situation but living in a fortress and not going outside isnt my idea of living life

it wasn't her choice to pull off to a side street, etc.
02:15

In the situation we were in i would say avoidance would have been impossible <--BULLSHIT
it aint blamin

how is that blaming seren?
thats fairly strong
seren what if u stopped the car, waited for them to get out and then drive off when theyre out of the car
traffic was packed
i could not drive off
they would have the advantage to smash or pull me from car window

yep, its fairly strong because not only do I strongly believe it, but I don't think just sitting here chilling is gunna get my point af view across to seren.
hindsight is pretty rich

it sounds like the guys in the other car must be fairly insane
uh huh
they may well have chased them
i don't think anyone thinks that what they were doing was wrong
i think better to deal with it in a crowded place were there are lots of people round
i think maybe you tHink its my fault because i didn't avoid it
B queen street was packed

no seren, that's not what I think at all
if you can avoid it then ok but its pretty hard to get away from someone in slow traffic
the matter is that noone really cared
yeah ):
yeah better than with no one around seren
all the white boys i asked to help me just stood on corner and watched
just stood & watched
fanks for correction

who would have helped?

if I was on my own there's no way I woulda
it took two brown guys with BALLS to help try and stop it and i know if i had been hit or attacked noone would have helpe me if it wasn't for those two guys
2 guys trying to beat up one guy and "G'f"
i wouldnt get involved in a fight until it came messy
yeah until they see a knife
kicking when people down
until some one is stabbed
until someone is already dead
fuck those violent cunts....I WANT TO KILL THEM!
oh B i got my cheap punch in when dude was on ground

that's a tough call, seren.
seren if i was attacked unjustifiably i would (if i was still standing) probably kick the shit out of them
you guys need to back off seren
you werent there
i dont think she or her boyfriend did anything wrong
yes, if someone forced me to fight, i would penalise them for that
regardless if you would have done things differently

you still think I'm blaming seren?
its coming across as seren did something wrong
im not saying your blaming her for causing the situation Session
Close: Mon Feb 04 02:32:19 2002

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Oh fuck i should have double checked, i will just wait for the shit to hit the fan in regards to a name i missed :S :S :S
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grrrrrrrrr
there was nothing Serendipity could do. Don't blame the victim!
In a packed street how many people are honestly willing to stand up for fellow citizens being mobbed by drunk lunitics? huh? huh?
Maybe we need to look @ ourselves, things like this should NEVER happen Sad especially on a packed street on a friday night! makes me want to curl up into a little hole Sad
[quote]
dont worry, people should stand up for their view points, tough shit when it hits the fan Smile
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*me turns the fan on to mode 1 :S*
Thanks Aims, i would like others to comment on violence in general i am just an example or a VICTIM if you chose to call it that hehe.
[quote]
I think you need to look at your choice of terms a bit Serendipity. Fob and faggot are really offensive terms. I am sure you were not at all responsible for what happened and were the victim, but that doesn't justify the use of those two terms. Prejudice is one of the factors that leads to feeling of anger and therefore violence.
[quote]
what do the words fob and faggot have to do with Prejudice? they are mearly slang used to express anger @ violent people.
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fark that sucks Sad
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Both are derogatory terms aimed at creating the stigma that they are less than human... Ie, fag bash is okay cause it's only a faggot (not a real person). It's being happening for thousands of years and I don't think people really realise the significance of these terms and others.
[quote]
Jono - lighten up sweetie, the world is way too serious already.
I realise these terms are derogatory, but when not directed at a person in particular rather a term used for a group of people who are abusing/chasing/scaring the shit outta ya... it's OK.
[quote]
Bullshit airns. What it is saying is that someone who you don't like is as bad as a gay person. If being called gay as a term of abuse is not a putdown of gay people then I don't know what the hell is. The same goes for fob, which is used to refer to islanders who have just arrived in the country and don't know anything. Think how you would feel if a term describing you was a form of abuse to throw at someone as if it was the worst thing they could be.
[quote]
I somewhat agree with aims, but not entirely.

Words are defined by their interpretation in current times. Just as calling a black african-american a "nigger" back in the slavery days, and even beyond (perhaps even now, to some extent) was deemed to be discraceful and racist - we now use the term "nigga" in many ways, meant as a term on endearment, just like "mate". "Howsit nigga?" and all that. Even black artists call each other 'nigga's now.

Although using the term 'gay' is different as it does attach a negative meaning to a word describing a group of people, many people use that term now in a less harsh manner. It's interpreted dfiferent. I've used the terms 'gay' and 'fob' in many ways along the lines of aims, but I am far from homophobic and have no issues with homosexuals. They're just more people to meet to me, no different than anyone else.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that language is defined, unfortunately, by the way in which it is used and interpreted by the social situation you are in. Some terms we use now are hangovers from past prejudices, yes, but their meaning has changed.

As aims says, they are now slang. Slang with a nasty history, but slang nonetheless. Groups of people get insulted all the time based on various stereotypes and prejudices.

Having said that, using the terms in an inflammatory manner as above is a different issue. Sometimes it is 'ok' to use them (in a joking fashion) - sometimes it is not. I think it depends on the social situation. By the way, I have not read Seren's entire post (too long and drivelly!).

Personally, I would rate "faggot" or "fag" as being mcuh harsher a term than either "fob" or "gay". As in I might jokingly call someone a "fob" or say "that's kinda gay" (although I'm trying to stop doing the last one, it's just not cool), but never call someone a faggot or a fag. Strange ah.
[quote]
Once again you've taken the words out of my mouth, voice, so er, yeah, I'll just agree...

Actually, I'll add to it with some recent examples:
Gay people I know have referred to crap things as gay. Gay is used here to mean "uncool".
Fag is used on these forums and in chat: Trance-fags. I don’t take too much offence to it... (heh)

But yeah, I remember many years ago listening to someone question why so many hip hop artists were using the highly offensive word "nigger" in their lyrics so often. The Artist who was questioned said something to the effect of he and many others were taking the power out of the word by using it on themselves.
A number of years have past, and I have noticed slowly over time that he infact, that is what has happened to some degree.

However, on the flipside, there are certain words that have become common place in some circles that I personally don’t think should have:
Calling your beloved girlfriend "My Bitch" is still something I personally find very offensive. Yet quite possibly there are generation of people who use this word with no er, dissing(heh), intended. But I hate it myself. : )