US health care bill

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1209/30850.html

So the US Senate has "advanced" a bill for health care reform, and it should pass in the next few days.

Been to a few left-wing/liberal type websites and they're very unhappy with it, because of the lack of a public option.

Thoughts?

from what I've read one could say its a victory of sorts... and only in America

Am not well informed on this topic at the moment, but an interesting prog about it on nat radio currently. One commentator was saying health reform in the US could be as dramatic in its impact on society as the civil rights bill.

Some shocking facts:
62% of all bankrupcies in the US result from health costs (some bankrupted have health ins, but not enough).
Infant mortality in the US is higher than in Cuba.

seems the health care reform bill is headed for the rocks

do any research on any level and the facts are sobering to say the least

still profit before the public good I say

HUGE election for Ted Kennedy's Senate seat in Massachusetts today.

Looks like the dem. candidate might have fucked it up royally, jeopardising the Dems' majority in the senate.

This could be bye bye health care bill :<

GOP takes Ted Kennedy's senate seat.

Question is whether Dems will ram through Health Care Bill before the republican is actually signed in. They have 3 weeks apparently...

bad weather on poll day would favour the GOP would it not?

The way the media are talking its the end of the world.

Reading between the lines Martha Coakley was largely incompetent and blew it.

Obama is becoming the fall guy for the American way of life.

Complete disaster from the reporting i've heard - Republicans can now use the filibuster rule to drag debate on ad infinitum

Good description here:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/19/uspolitics.filibuster/

"If the majority party needs 60 votes to pass a bill, and it can't win votes from the other side, a handful of moderates wield tremendous power."

"The Civil Rights Act of 1964 ... met with heavy opposition ... (some republicans) tried to kill the bill with a filibuster, but there was enough Republican support ... In the end, the act passed with overwhelming support."

The Senate is completely, irretrievably fucked. Got 59% majority? Doesn't matter, you can't pass bills without one guy loading it weith personal pork.

if you can get around to watching this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00qg6vc/HARDtalk_Howard_Dean_Former_Democratic_Party_Chairman/
What will happen to health care reform and the future of Obama's administration?

there are some interesting takes on this

essentially there was no majority for this "hodge podge of a watered down bill" thanks to two dem senators opposed to it

Mass loss due to obama voters sending message that he has not gone far enough on his change program in respect of heaalth bill

Populist republicans may support reforms planned for Wall St

How are you watching that when the video is blocked for people outside the UK?

Anyway there was a really good opinion piece in a local paper here recently which summed things up quite nicely. One point it touched on was that the U.S political system is at the end of day is decidedly undemocratic.

My interest in American politics is beginning to wane.

Maybe this is why...

http://www.theage.com.au/business/australia-exits-americas-orbit-after-crisis-20091227-lg7x.html

I watched it on BBC Asia so look out fir a repeat this week. I think there are work arounds for the blocking so reason I posted link as we'll as for peeps in UK.

Health care summit live: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35523266

ITS A FARCE!

The Repubs think they have been thrown a life line with the health care debate and maybe they have but if the Dems play it right it will backfire in the end.

Done, through the House and supposedly with the necessary votes to get the amendments through the Senate. Big tings

That is a pretty phenomenal step for America. They're had a serious business first, people second system for so long...

It is a shameful picture of US politics that the entire thing hinged on a small group of about 10 Dems who's concern with it was money might get used for abortions. That's it. They would have stopped legislation which will go a fair way to fix issues in the most insanely money hungry and inefficient healthcare administration the developed world.

Yeah but people who are anti abortion typically view it in the same light as purposefully ending a life. So to allow a bill through that supported it would be an inconceivable breach of their values. No point passing a bill to save lives if it's going to be taking them at the same time.

That's not necessarily my view but I know how these people think.

I'm hearing a lot of murmurings from some dems about how much this bill was watered down to get through which makes me wonder just how much of a victory it really was?

I think the repubs always knew it would be passed in the end, I always thought it would anyway.

They may consider the various compromises they have forced on the dems to be a minor victory of their own. The party certainly appears to be in better shape than it was before this debate started.

Quote from a US delegate at an international health care conference:

“The difference between us is that you guys believe in equity and we don’t. In the US, people are less interested in making sure everyone gets care than that those who can get it get great care. They accept not getting care now if they can see the opportunity to improve their position and succeed, so that, when they get the money, they will be able to buy great care the minute they want it. It is all about opportunity. People in the US want opportunity, not equity. That’s what they think is fair.”

That was in the 1980s - even before it got really bad. I doubt many people would have said that in recent times without risking some heavy criticism.

Unlike NZ, Aust, England, Canada etc the US culture generally lacks any real interest in the well-being of others. They hide it by spouting the 'if you pursue the opportunities you have in America to get ahead you will be able to afford it. Why take that opportunity away from people' bla bla... typical republican thinking which is what got America into the mess they're in.

I read an article in the Economist a while back about sourcing in the US healthcare system. Republican senators blocked changes to legislation which would have allowed healthcare providers in a couple of counties to shop around suppliers for stuff like wheelchairs, dressings etc as a test on costings. The reason people wanted to try it was that even though healthcare providers were buying in bulk they were paying more than retail price - sometimes 100% more - simply because the suppliers knew they couldn't shop around. In the case of the wheelchair a person could buy one model online, delivered to their door for about $300. Hospitals would have payed $800 for it.

These centres weren't even allowed to do a test to see if competitive bidding would save any money - blocked by Republican senators and their mates.

Another example of their problems is diagnostic blood testing. In NZ ours cost something like $30-35 on average. In the US the same thing costs US$130 (NZ$184).. no reason other than basically if everything else is expensive then blood tests need to be too.

ohh i just found that was an old quote (1988 ), from a recentish article (2003), in the Medical Journal of Australia. You put that quote into Google Scholar right, surely you dont read the MJA?

And they have to buy stuff in packs. If they want a particular product it may come in a pack with 10 other things (generally its a pack specific to a general group of operations. They are/were also blocked from using unused products AND from donating unused medical equipment to 3rd world countries.

Anyone know much about this Tea Party Movement that's emereging? From what I can tell they're just a bunch of racists who are using similar tactics to the 60s radicals (mass demonstrations, talk of oppressive regimes) to make their point. It seems they think that Obama is oppressing everyone with his healthcare bill and using old Revolutionary inuendo to imply that everything he does is Unamerican, and yet:

Bush introduced the patriot act.
Where were the Tea Party movement then?
Waving fucking flags.
Obama gives everyone health care
"ooooh my freedoms"
Racists basically.

Oh and Sarah Palin has become one of their biggest allies, often speaking at their events.

Sarah Palin is the Lisa Lewis of America.

If people stopped for a second to ask why anyone pays any attention to her there would be silence.

Ultimately about as much point as selling gift-wrapping for an MP3.

Lisa Lewis poses little threat to anyone but herself... palin on the other hand

another hick president could be on the cards. Scary

There is simply no way that Palin will ever win the presidency.

She's not even concerned with running for office -- she's just on the tea party gravy train. She has made an incredible amount of money since she quit the governorship by whoring herself out at tea party like events.

Besides the tea party crowd, nobody at all takes her seriously I don't think.

this is the US we are talking about... theres enough loopy people to vote in Bush, twice.