'uncontacted tribes'

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/05/30/brazil.tribes/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

so there are all these uncontacted tribes living in the bush with no knowledge at all of the outside world.

But is that good or bad? They reckon they should be left to their own lives and 'protected from intrusion' etc - which sounds fair enough, but isn’t this like some kind of human zoo lol??

Or even worse... if some tribe kid if suffering from or is going to die from some easy to treat ailment then should they really just let ‘nature take its course’ - like some wild animals on the discover channel!

I mean I could understand if they had very limited contact but wanted to be left alone and live in the traditional tribal ways. But to make that decision for them seems wrong on some level… ?

-

On another note: What about starting up a new tribe using orphaned babies, with a few paid ‘elders’ to get the first generation going. Is it any different morally?

The Truman Tribe! Lol


Or getting an existing tribe and moving them into a special built ‘bush zoo’, for there own protection of course… hah

personally i think we should leave them be and not encroach on them
its only a 'human zoo' if people fence them in and watch their every move... they should be literally left the fuck alone

as for dying from easy to treat ailments... i bet they dont have the obesity/heart disease/cancer etc. that many 'western' societies do, im sure these tribes will be fine in their own way as long as they are... left the fuck alone!

on a similar note:
im gonna go to mongolia one day and live as a nomad
i HOPE i stop having all contact with the 'outside world'

I bet you’ll rethink that the first time you need medical attention.

Unfortunately, I cant see how people will be able to leave them alone.

Even if they don't become a tourist attraction, then I am sure some anthropologists or the like will want to study them. Having already made some contact with them has changed their society forever, and failing that, I am sure the missionaries will be in there shortly to save the heathens.

I remember a conversation with some rangers in Zimbabwe many years ago - and it was their believe that we have been trying to play god with the world so long now, that if we did just now back off, and 'leave them alone' it would all fall over. I am sure over several thousand years it would sort itself out, but in the short term, out interaction has already caused too much of a change.

They were, in their case talking specifically about the local wildlife in the park, but it relates.

This topic reminds me of an anthropology lecturer discussing how appealing the notion of peoples totally uncontacted by modern life was, and how rare it was in practice (mainly because of trade and exchange networks). He was discussing the state of early twentieth century anthro.

Wikipedia has this to say: "Recent usage favors the term "isolated" rather than "uncontacted" as few peoples have remained totally uncontacted by modern civilization, but a number have chosen to make contact either exceedingly difficult or dangerous."

Now i guess we are going to have to argue about 'informed consent to remain isolated.'

I reckon some US network should start a reality TV show and introduce objects and comical situations that we all know but they have never encountered and watch the hilarity ensue as it tears their community up.

Well if true that still leaves a number of tribes totally uncontacted - so the principle remains the same.

And yeah I don’t really think some kind of one off encounter with a bunch of illegal loggers (or whatever) can really be considered as a tribe being ‘contacted’ either… lol

Could you not find a happy medium?

I have a mate who is about to sell his business which is worth millions now and buy up a certain amount of New Zealand bush, placing it all into a protective trust and building an eco-friendly house in the middle of it.

You may have a dislike for certain western elements, like capitalism, the cities and peoples attitudes but it doesn't mean you have to turn completely radical about it.

that would be awesome if i could do that at some point!
certainly if i ever had the means available that would be a viable (probably preferable) alternative

im just planning in case im super poor =)

They should definitely be left alone.

My understanding is that due to their lack of contact with modern society their immune systems are unable to handle many of viruses etc we fight off with relative ease.

If not their lives, their way of life will be lost forever.

What right does anyone have to take away what little these people have? We don't even need too.

Easy to say sitting smugly in your warm house, tapping away on your nice laptop, hot dinner in the oven, car parked waiting outside, freedom to go anywhere, or do anything in this world.

Remember they are humans, not a bunch of gorillas. What right do you have to deny them all the opportunities you were given by others?


- agree on the diseases thing thou, any contact would have to be done in a very controlled manner.

umm trapper the premise is that they do not want to be modernised

I love it!

This is such a crackingly good example of the conceited arrogance of the western imperialist mind set. It even likens them to Gorillas. Can i suggest Baboons next time for a bit of variety?

The safe money, on the likely consequences of modernisation for these people, would be on them ending up in a stinking dung hole of slum in Rio, making a living through crime and prostitution, obese, addicted to crack, suffereing diabetes, and plagued by mental illness.

No it’s not. How can anyone proclaim to know what they want if no one ever bothered to, you know, actually ask them??

If we are going to assume anything then, judging by the vast majority of the humans in the rest of the world, we should assume that they DO want access to (at least some of) the advantages the modern world offers. Or at least the choice?!!

wow - and you have the gall to use ‘conceited arrogance’ in reference to me! haha

Let me give you another possible scenario - they decide to keep living in the jungle but now they have the choice of not dying from an infected splinter! - who would have thought!

trapper - from that linked news report at top



they don't want a bar of the outside world



they have good reason not to



refer to the poster above re disease, favelas, crime etc. and contrast with this



seems clear to me

Oh come on man, that is ridiculous

They don’t know what the fuck an aeroplane is, of course they are going to react with fear when some big fricken monster starts buzzing around above their village.


Btw; it’s pretty classic how you (and a few others) think that on one hand they don’t want to be contacted and want to stay isolated in their jungle village. But on the other hand you think that if they were actually contacted, the first thing they would do is leave their jungle village and move into a Rio slum!! Hahahaa priceless

not saying it's the first thing they'd do but it sure as hell is a likely scenario that they'd gravitate there eventually or their offspring

Lots of guessing going on...

It would be understandable that they might fear a plane, both from ignorance or perhaps past experience from illegal loggers (or perhaps US mercs ) shooting at them.

Recent history regarding ingigenous tribes would indicate they are usually worse off after contact, particularly if their land is wanted for something else.

On the other hand - how do you not contact them, we have already broken their isolation (possibly in a bad way). Who is to say that they now think they are under threat and they are all going to fight to the last. If someone comes near them and they shoot at them it might trigger a response and down hill it goes like those people on the island who killed the stranded boaties.

which leads us back to

Humans are curious - how do you communicate to them that there are boundaries to their existence without contacting them?

That very much is the dilemma or the paradox that we face in theses circumstances and ever was. We see in the Amazonian loggers a modern parallel with the colonialists of old and their expansionist adventuring after economic opportunity 'purchased' at the expense of the peoples' of subject lands sovereign rights.

It’s not really clear from this thread what type of contact, and progressing through what stages, you would like to see trapper.

Maybe you should provide us some kind of overview of what you anticipate happening, and for what purpose.

I posted the ‘Rio slum’ comment simply because you talked about someone living a comfortable middle class first world existence. An outcome like that is entirely unrealistic, but it appeared that this needed to be pointed out to you.

I'm just not sure these people are actually capable of intergrating into modern society.

It would have to be very slow I would think, over years.

But that's unliekly to be the case as once the loggers move in they are pushed into the cities I guess? With what support?

It seems likely to me their lives will at least be pretty bad afterwards.

To bring that about knowingly is definitley wrong.

They own that land don't they? So they shouldn't have to go anywhere.

Here is how it works in Brazil: Loggers and ranchers can only claim virgin rain forest if it has no one already there, because Brazilian law protects indigenous property rights. So what the ranchers and loggers do is the kill any Indians they find, then lo! They can occupy the land.

This tribe is not a "lost" tribe. They have decided to withdraw contact from the outside world, and to aggressively defend their land against all comers.

Tribe not lost, just out of touch, expert confesses

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10517789