Turntables.....

Do any of you actually use these any more?
It seems everywhere I look everyone is using cd/midi/digi things.

If the answer is no, then what have you done with your decks?
Even though Im not djing anymore, I couldnt bear the thought of selling mine (for many reasons),
and besides, I still use them for sampling, but the interwebs could easily kill that too.

Has this had an impact on skill levels, set structures etc...?

Lastly, where to next?

next... more of the same

a ever more diluted scene with easier and easier tools with which to craft a set and create music

with a few old timers brought out for novelty value to play records and astound the kids

i use turnies! i refuse to use cdjs.. the same goes when im playing with my j.e.f chohort, melt. we play vinyl only. if you want me to play your gig, then you best provide me turntables or i wont play.

a young auckland based dj said to me a while back, "i hate turntables, cdjs are so much easier and you dont have to focus so much." pfft. the youth of today need to work harder, imo.

That should read i Play Vinyl emulated MP3 files only ....eh mel!!

I refuse to let go, and i think when i do actually get asked to play a gig its a point of difference in a very saturated market.

2c

i do play vinyl too! i just cant afford to buy it atm. serato allows me to still use turntables until such time as i can afford to update my vinyl collection.

oh, and totally agree about the point of difference!

laptop DJs you need this:

http://www.etsy.com/listing/41516747/turntable-mixer-dj-vinyl-decal-laptop

vinyl Djs get fucked you throw backs *hugs*

Ok, so what about the so called "live" sets?
Better/worse than the cd/mp3 jocks? is there a diff?

Nearly all the live sets Ive seen have been not what Id call live, as playing a two finger bassline doesnt not make it live.

What do you considered 'live' though?

Playing an instrument like a 'computer' or an 'audio controller' can be just as creative as replaying a bassline you wrote 5 years ago as close as you can remember on a guitar.

Live as in its possible to fuck it up, having no back up.
Im all for using controllers etc and it becomes its own instrument.
Most Ableton users I imagine play it pretty safe, if you miss something you can wait another x amount of bars etc..

Well, so you're saying that musicians that practice for thousands of hours playing the same 20 riffs are WORSE because they have less of a chance to fuck up, than the busker down the street?

Be careful trying to justify what 'playing' and 'instrument' and 'live' is.... it's a slippery slope to calling Stairway To Heaven purely craft now and not art.

...uummmm....
Live is live is live is live. Doesnt matter how many times you practise (the more you practise means the less likely your gonna fuck it up).
Im not even going down the art vs craft road, thats another conversation all together.


Any muso worth their weight in pot, is gonna practice. If they dont, well they are either freaks or they will suck.

So called live acts who "press a button, wait for sixteen bars, press another button....." is not what Id call live.
I do understand the restrictions when playing live electronic music as far as timing/syncing goes, but it can still be done,
it just requires a change in approach and technique/tools.

Im not even sure what Im trying to say anymore.

Sorry man, was just taking the piss out of this statement

A good live electronic show isn't just pressing play etc... I find it extremely boring watching most rock bands rehashing the same old shit from their last album. But each to their own. I'd rather see someone playing a DAW and controller setup. You'd probably rather see Megadeath doing covers of The Best of Crydamoure.

I place a lot of importance on improvisation - so I like both extreme jazz, and also electronic musicians that can change the sound of their synth live, rearrange melodies, completely tweak a hook into something quite new etc... but only the good end. The boring button pressers are just as boring to me as a boring band.

Most bands don't really do this, there maybe be some change, but you don't generally expect to see it. In fact ,many magazines reviewers, record labels etc discourage bands from doing this.

All good man,

I agree with everything you said (except the crydamoure bit, that would just be wrong and very disturbing).
I once joked about booting a Cradle of Filth tune to a french guy a while back, and he didnt have many
nice things to say, even with his shonky translation. Something along the lines of "please prevent me
from ever hearing this"!!

In regards to improv...totally agree, a great band who happens to be playing their old shit, will start to improvise
due to pure boredom. A great band that is.
Ive just heard the "live show" statement and its most of the time a load of bollocks.
I remember seeing Cassius and Groove Armarda play live, and it was just that.
This is where for me, djing off vinyl (due to being pure analogue) and ableton/tracktor etc.. butt heads (and what that has instore
for house music re the op).

Like you said, I love hearing a performer play a riff (well known) and tweak it into something new, off the cuff.
Its exciting, it moves it foward, its creating.

I dunno, maybe it really is a case of live means different things to different people.

lets face it fuck all electronic peeps and or bands have the skill or imagination to do anything more than play shit back...

and then there are those that can't help but constantly tweek and change things in the music they're crafting when playing it back in a live situation... these are the types most likely to be adored by music nerds

end of the day if ya pill don't kick in its all a bit hollow eh

Well thanks Bob, you've just potentially ended the conversation

I guess that most people don't know there's a difference between 'craft' and 'art'...
So for me, live 'art' is more important than live 'craft'.
So seeing many of the world's 'leading musicians' is boring, because they're just using their craft to rehash their past artistic glory... and to me that's not exciting.

Art should, as a wise man once said, be spontaneous, a once in a lifetime experience. Tools to make this so are getting more prevalent every day.

We think that someone playing a guitar or drum kit is 'more' live than someone programming a computer based audio device, I'd heartily disagree.

You don't need a 'live band' to play live electronica. If anything I feel this is just people doing covers of the artists original art. And to me, covers are as close to hell as you can get apart from being part of the human centipede

See, now this, I totally agree with. Although i am on board 100% with what Matt says, The "live" card has been bandied around by way too many artists with regard to electronica. Tbh, I would far rather see someone playing with an mpc and some turnies than rehashing 1,000 year old rock from heydays gone by. But I do think that far too many acts have used the 'live' card as a puller for patrons, when really they are busting steez off Ableton, or even just a laptop. Maybe some of them are actually laying their tracks out, piece by piece and tweaking shit.. But , imo, a mad amount are just fucking around with premixed bullshit.

I caught a very well known "live" hard house act (please dont ask me why I was there) doing their thang 3 or so years ago. i had a vantage point better than most and was watching them from above. they had an mpc, a keyboard, a laptop and cdjs. I shit you not, they pretended to press buttons whilst playing a mix.. and the crowd goes wild..

I would like to think that us house cats are a little more cultured (and have a little more class than to do this) but, sadly, many out to make a buck as opposed to really crafting their art.

Being a DJ is tits, innit!

Taken a bit of a turn to the left (I was trying to address what is in store for us housers as a result of the digi medium),
but its gone left in a good way.

Mr Drake, art vs craft....I totally agree with everything you said, but a good portion of "live acts" have a "back up" and that was what I
was aiming at, and what it means for the future.

HL, I know exactly who you are talking about (re hardhouse gig), and I laughed my ass off when I discovered this.
Its a pity cause one of the guys from that group has "golden ears" in the studio, and he's a good dude too, it just sucks
that he uses it for the stuff he makes.

And dont worry about being spotted there, Filterbrats used to play house rooms at hard house/trance gigs all the time.
We used to try and steal the crowd, I saw it as we were playing the Trade Lite room (ffs Steve Thomas and Malcom Duffy championed the
lite room at Trade), while the uv parade bounced in circles in the main room.

yeah for sure. I had heard the same about that particular geezer. Imo, there are a goodly amount of people who are not in it for the music. They are in it for the notoriety, the money, the chicks.. Whatever the reason, music, and the creation of, is not the top of their list of priorities. therein, it benefits these types to play 'live' as the general populace has less than no clue what this actually means. All they know is its not just a DJ! They just wave their glow sticks, drink their RTDs and flail round to the beat.

Those who are all about the music will continue to push boundaries and will actually play 'live'. It would be nice to think that those who do this far outweigh those who dont.. Sadly, I can not believe for a second that this is actually the case..