Tagging

The reason why i want to do the topic on tagging in this forum section is that tagging sort of incorporates the association with street culture.

Recently at the Ack Uni the PI space was closed due to vandalism and graffti, which i found to be very childish and disgusting. However do you notice how much graffti is in the toilets in the uni library and in lecture room on the tables???? Just wanted to talk about this cause there is a difference with art and just shit.

Would you classify street tagging as some form of art?
And are there any hip hop biggies that do have a tag name or whatever???


Cheers Seren

Yeah another thing, i'm not a cop hehe (incase you think i want your tagging name to id you hehe)

Yeah it is a problem - I hate seeing crap throws around the place.

I do consider graffiti an artform. Did anyone cheq the exhibition they had up at Aotea Centre last year from Disrupt the System?

I see a lot of cool bombings around Sydney but at the same time for every good bombing there is about 20 crap throws.

I don't write, wish I had the talent but NO

Yeah, graff IS art. There are some really talented cats around, the guys that do it properly.

But graff work is different from tagging.

acornm: Ask Ryan about his old flatmate, Wicky. he used to do it, old skool stylees. He's one clever mo-fo.

Massive difference between TAGGING and BOMBING

One is for wannabe gangsters while the other is valid artistic expression such as Keith Harring. He had an exhibition a while back at Te Papa. I don't know much about art but i know what i like, and i really like a good bit of graffiti art.

Yeah yeah acornm i saw that dope shit in Aotea last year. Part of the Hip Hop summit me thinks, can't wait for this years

Chief - sorry my bad. Yeah the hiphop summit had disrupt the system again but in June they had an exhibition in Aotea Centre around June/July for the first disrupt the system in CHCH. Either way quality pieces of art.

Yeah and if you guys get time go down to the old Oriental Markets in the city - nice pieces inside there. Well there were nice one's in December, don't know if they still use the place

graff is all good!!!!!!!!!!!

just in the right places tho i suppose.

SINCE WHEN IS ART A CRIME???

Indeed, I think the term graffiti has a bad name now. Although I think some of it IS art, and some people are /very/ talented, I don't think that gives anyone the right to just rip out the cans and do it anywhere they like.

You have to remember that it is someone else's property, after all and "artistic expression" doesn't really give you the right to break the law. I think most genuine artists in the area are probably pretty good about that.

When it's done legally, it can be very, very cool. That's why I like to see the initiatives some councils and that go to to have exhibitions and such.

The problem is generally all the idiots who just tag random crap, that requires no talent whatsoever. I'm not really down with the whole tagging culture of trying to tag hard to get and prominent places as some kind of status symbol. Kinda reminiscent of giggling in Form 1 when you wrote "poo" on your desk and then showed all your friends...

Personally i think Bombing is an art form in all respects.
But in a way so could be tagging.
Point is if there is a reason behind it. Just taggin for instance Slyboot on the wall aint Art.
A prime example of an artist who started off w/ wat was meaningful tagging (in some respects ) -
Basquit . He was a bum in New York untill he was dicovered, and then hung out w/ the likes of Andy Warhol. Got to a point where the walls which he tagged when he was a bum were sold in some of the top auction houses of the time.
It comes down to what you like basically.
But if every tom, dick and homeboy goes around taggn
utter crap then it will be seen as just mindless graffitti and removed by the council.
Personally i thinks that if you are keen to represent your art in this style, then maybe you should take into consideration the context in which it is percieved by others.
just my opinion.

ok starters... i could talk forever
but i wont il just simplyfy a few of my opinions on graf, as i myself am a convicted wilful damager which i am not proud of, but live with because of my love for the art and my addiction to taggin/bombin.

alot of people hate tagging and say its not art.. but really wh can classify what is or isnt art? its really what you make it out to be,its in the eye of the beholder.

alot of tagggers (this may same stupid) have ethics to which they tag on.. for example some imght stick to town and tagging on businesses etc around town and not do any residential fences etc.. others that do tag fences may only stick to ones that ave already been tagged... and others just fuk up anythign they see....others only do trains and that sort of thing and the train tracks, but really its up to the tagger or watever

and people that say they hate taggin and love bombing dont really have much clue, tagging is derived from bombing and peicing is derived from bombing.. people who peice are most likely to have been ex-taggers or ex-bombers, even if they are legal only artists.(only do permission walls).. i mean they have turned around for numerous reasons and sticked tot e legal side, but most of them have done their fair share of illegal work beforehand.

me personally i like all forms of grafitti... i dont hate the taggers and i dont hate the people who only do legals.. i love all aspects, whether it be top to bottom tags on some poor muthafukers fence, or a legal production which has been taken a whole day to do... but thats just me.. but what bothers me is the different groups/kinds of grafitti artists hate each other because they have different or changed opinions... i think its all love and the legal artists shuddunt care if 'taggings giving them a bad name' for one thing they had done it in the past most probably, and secondly who knows the taggers mmaybe using tagging or street throwups(bubble letters etc etc) as a stepping stone to "bigger things" if tats what you want to call it... but then again theres people who just like tagging....

-peace
and keep graffin

-NEVS ONER--- ITF CREW---

my 16 year old brother is one of those kids throwing up crap tags everywhere,i've been trying to teach him how to do it proper.little punkass.

has anyone from welli seen the work done on the paraparaumu train station and along buildings down the train route? scream is the man yo

and he was allowed to do it!

courtz ----> its really what you make it out to be,its in the eye of the beholder.

nicely put.

yeah you probably read the article in craccum about grafitti and how its on the rise in auckland university etc... and the f is for fun articles crack me up...

Wellington can look a little bleak at times, but when you drive round the bays through oriental bay past Chaffers it is nice to see the nice bright bombing done by local people.
Any wellington peeps out there pick up a copy of "the flannel" will be sold sold at real groovy and shit and it features a bit about some of the people who did them and a nice photo shoot. Good to see the youth admiring the arts.

What pisses me off though is the little wannabez that tag fucken everywhere. I see tagging like on street fences and shops and public property to be VANDALISM.
I appreciate bombing as in murals and shit but if i owned a business and little wankoff's were PISSING THEIR TAG NAMES ON MY WALLS I WOULD GO APESHIT.

I refer to the term pissing because i liken tagging and the "tagger/taggee" to be like a male dog marking his territory by pissing and shitting everywhere.

Seren,
I actually much prefer the "shit" people write in
public toilets etc than the so-called "art" bombs.
I use to really love the look of bombs, but now i
think they look crass and old. I do appreciate
some of the more out there picture bombs, but
the big fancy wild-style or whatever-style word
bombs just look ugly and boring. I realise how
unhiphop this is but i'm simply not feeling any of
the bombs i see around town.

As for tagging, if it's something funny like "ring
john banks mum on 09 ----- if your looking for a
good time" then wicked, i'm all for it.
But i find the taggers that make up words like
"Alphrisk" or whatever are just laughable. What
a fucking waste of paint.

Tagging is shit. The only people who know who the tagger really is, is the other taggers. Your not gonna be "famous" with the rest of society who don't know or give a shit who you are, unless they can catch you.
What gives you the right to go and mark someone else's property. How would you like it if they came to your place and did that to you.

Graffiti art/bombs are all good, so long as they are created in the right place with permission.

Whats really funny is the people that try and tag using bucket and paint brush LOL TRYHARDS

Thats tragic, they probably sniff the paint after to get high.

hehe.... true i prefer the smell of petrol better though

Yeah, like grafftti more.
Used to do heaps of graffs myself, never done a pieace on a wall though, only on paper. Actually did some for my design work in 7th form art, passed it too, it was on urban wear.

But don't like tagging that much, i don't really consider tagging a form of art, well thats what i think. Only coz theres so many crap tags out there, i'm not saying i could do better, i'm pretty shit at tagging infact, i concentrate more on graffs.

who cares

Courtz- Apparently you don't.... Everyone lets go tagg on courtz property

if my wall started getting taged on id just paint over all the wack shit and let it fill up with nice pieces. u never know, the way hip hops going i might be able to sell it in a couple of years as a historical exhibition on the roots of this new kinda music called hip pop.

basicly, if it looks sweet its cool wit me

are u people fuckn kidding? tagging is poo. wateva fuckn no-life spends his evenings out tryin to 'hit up' on people's shit, evading cops and security? i agree with u serendipity and x-press - fuck tagging.

courtz: ITF - itchy trigger finger? fuck that, how many of u's actually seen a gun. i think that tagging crews are just a way of people grouping 2gether to be tough and try and mark out their 'turf' - in a way jst like wannabe gangsters.

most people mature and grow outta this shit by the time they're 17 and hav better things to do.
maximuss: post ur address and let the little wiggaz hav their way wit ur fence - save mine. who the fuk wants their neighbourhood lookin like a dirty ghetto.

sure bombs and pieces may look good on a piece of A4 or canvas, but dont bring that shit to the side of my dairy. all tagging does is make the city look like a fuckn poor-ass run-down hood and waste council money, which could be spent on otha shit e.g more 'Exhibitions' for these professional, legal bombers.

again, ITF? u muthaz drive round in ur thuggin, sacked out Beemers, tryna look tuff - but fuck u, u cunts stole my mate's M-Sport kit off his. CRUNCH? screw ya, crunch what? NEV ONERS - nah bo

anywayz thats all i gotta say on the matter, stir u boys up some. peace

*bump*

Art is in the eye of the beholder, no, i dont' reckon alot of tagging is pretty, but then thats not really the point. Tagging is part of a culture and a way of communication. Some of it is beautiful, and hard to do, and hard to get up in difficult places. Doing hard things = respect. Is part of it.
And yeah, it's on other peoples property, what are they gonna do? erect 'tagging only' placards? Never.
And furthermore, the council and private companies are CONSTANTLY erecting buildings that are complete f**king eyesores to me, but is there ever national debate whether it's art and should they be allowed to fill the skyline with crap? NO. Taggers get a bad wrap cuz they're usually young, aimless, probably petty criminals blah blah blah . . this sounds rough but i only say it cuz i KNOW it. But kids are kids and when they're bored they get up to mischeif, there are worsing things thing scribvbling on walls. Besides, ever been out on a midnight mission . . ? too much fun!
Tagging is an integral part of our comunity whether we accept it or not. And least something keeps us talking.
P.S. bombing is completely different and truely f**kn beautiful artwork! word up Otis, you kill!

I don't personally think you can use "it's part of a culture" as an excuse to break the law and denigrate another person or business' private property.

To me "taggers" (opposed to bombers, aka artists) are like the fucks who drop chewing gum everywhere, and put it under desks and seats. Vandalism, and nothing more.

I refuse to believe that breaking the law, so, is an integral part of our community. That's like saying domestic violence is, because it too is done so often and has been for so long. It also keeps us talking!

word up Voice. how tagging can be an 'integral' part of community i dont know; we'd get along fine w/out it.

also, how is it a way of communication?? all it shows is that some dirty vandal wit a can has been there, and only a select minority of people will see it and know who hit it newayz.
commercial buildings are jst that: commercial buildings. they're there for business, not to win architecture awards. tags dont make em any prettier. besides, if u wanna pretty skyline go to a beach, or a bush or mountain.

i agree wit u on 1 thing: taggers are young, aimless, petty criminals who are heavily influenced by peers and music, and think that they're badass and ruthless, etc getting out there to throw up some sneaky hits around their own lil neighborhood.

hmmm..notice that there are other ways of getting a cheap buzz

nice read guys

wait wait wait . . .
voice, cotheman, i can't believe i'm hearing this?!?!?!
ARe you both 100% LAW ABIDING CITIZENS?!?!?!?!?
did u eva drink b4 u were 20 without ur olds around?@?!?!?!?!
eva smoke weed, EVA? eva shoplift one tiny li'l thing?
Okay, that's not really the point, I just wanted to clarify.
Are u really gonna sit here and use 'the law' as a defence?
I wouldn't, cuz the law aint gonna defend you.
'The Law' doesn't necessarily serve the people it was put n place for.
and there are more important things than 'upholding the law'.
I'm not saying taggin is the shiznit and that it always looks great, it doesn't.
I'm sayin, don't people, even young people, even people with small voices, deserve to be heard, deserve to live, without harming others, in any way they see fit?
ANd no, taggin aint harming others, dont' spin me that shit.
I'm also coming form the point of view of KNOWING this IS part of a culture, MY culture, OUR culture, if you're under 30Y/O/A.
There are so many kids who tag, and these kids are a product of our generation, and it TOTALLY f**ks me off to hear people segregatin members of society as if some are 'good, law abiders' and some are 'useless, stupid . .'
U know the clothes u sit in right now? I GUARANTEE u they are in a style that mimics a foreign culture that you have neva even visited.
oh, and u know HipHop, thats music, and it's influencial, and we didn't make it, and most people who adhere to it's way of thinking and philosophies (and i don't mean gangstarap shit) are EXACTLY the kind of people who break the law . .
WHY?
cuz the law wasn't made for everyone, it was made for a few.
And the law aint even that relevant to us it's so old.
There's good, there's bad, we all know the difference, be good, act kindly, etc. THOSE are the laws I think we should live by, not: hey! that's my fence.
sorry for the ramble, just u kinda got me spittin!
look forward to your reply . . .

EERG and one more thing:
you know that wall of that commercial building ur so fond of and concerned about, cotheman?
THat commercial building probably belongs to some massive corporation like 3M who are responsible for over 30% consumption of the planets natural resources . . .
now THATS f**kn up other peepl's shit, for everyone, foreva . . . .

Indeed, if you could actually articulate an intelligent, coherent argument, I'd bother replying, but until that day, I'll err ... leave it thank you very much.

*rolls eyes*

um dude, having a skilled bomber paint my wall for free = free art = better than no mean bomb on my fence.
and the kind of shit im talking about doesnt make it look like a crappy ghetto, but a beutifull street with quality art on it.

thats not a comeback, Voice, nor is it an argument, it's a cop out . . .
got an opinion but . . got anything to back it up . .?

and how about the fact people PAY to go to GRAFITI exhibitions in ART GALLERIES.

I agree that throwing up on other peoples shit isnt realey cool, its anywhere near as bad as the worst aspects of other cultures.

Rugby heads disrespect minorities and generaly act like red necks, Thugs break bottles on peoples heads
while graf artists pu some paint on a bit of concrete

woopdy fucking do, you want a tissue?

well...Oracle ma friend. i do agree wit u on some things; sure i drunk b4 18, smoked pot, did a lil s/lifting BUT.. i dont actively promote these things. i dont like these little 3/4/5 form stoners wasting away their lives - and i didnt do it excess. the same applies for tagging - a little bit here and there is to be expected- however its no great thing. besides, drinking and smoking really only affects the user - tagging affects every1 cos every1 sees it usually.

hmm.. now while corporations like 3M may/ may not use natural resources, do u actually think tagging helps combat this? or that taggers target these businesses? nah i doubt it ay

also these so called graf artists are not the same as ur everyday tagger. u know full well that they aint - graf artists do the big bombs and pieces round the place, often without permission but its usually on railway trax etc - not residential property. should i have to put up with someone's fuckn piss-ass bullshit *which doesnt reprazent shit* on my fence? no get fuckd.

when u steal from a shop, the owners pay for that item usually = loss of income. when u hav get out there & fuckn clean multicolored shit offa yo gate, that costs money too = loss of income. it may not be much but its still a hassle and it achieves nuthin. give me one decent reason why a crew of faggots should write DASM.BYDS.BOWSA.JEKL.DSC on my fence. wat the fuck is this? it certainly aint 'art' and it doesnt represent no hip-hop culture/ its not a sign of changing times or a way of expressing oneself. they do it so they can go to school on monday & say 'bro got some mean hits up in the wkend'. thats arse.

obviously thugs breakin bottles on peoples heads is worse, of course it is. but that aint no reason to support taggers - it jst shows they to be lesser criminals.
also in actual fact, most tagging crews are jst a like small gangs anyway. they go round 2gether and try to pick fights or intimidate others. while this may not be true fo every single tagger (of course it aint) it demonstrates the type of individual involved with tagging and thus they are frowned upon by society. even tho legal bombers and taggers are a world apart, this bad stereotype is passed on to the graf artists where 'people pay to go to exhibitions in galleries'.

personally i reckon bombs and pieces look fuckn wiked & me and my mates often spend time workn on them on paper, etc - however this desire doesnt extend to me needin to rush out and crudely spray a big 'COTHEMAN' on the side of a building.

maximuss: sure, a bomb doesnt make the 'hood look like a crappy ghetto, but filty little tags do. still, people hav the right to not let u bomb their fence - why shouldn't they? also its gunna be a waste of time; u put in all that work, only to hav it cleaned off the next day.

on the whole, its a neverending battle. some diehards spend their entire nights throwing up bitch ass little hits around their neighbourhood, hoping that about 2/10 of them wont be cleaned. i walk along the same path every friday and saturday mornings. on the friday, this one particular white fence will be clean, then by sat morning a big dirty 'FBS' - wateva that is - will be tagged there. and this has been the case for weeks now- the same little shit has hit the fence every friday nite for a month. fagggot.

oracle: u know why people over 30 (as u say) arent part of the 'culture'? its because everyone, even the true hardcore, has matured by then. most people grow out of it by university age, realising how pointless and homosexual it is.

I REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHY PEOPLE TAG, SERIOUSLY. IS IT THE FAME, THE BUZZ OR WHAT? honestly...

cotheman,
i like ur argument, and i totally agree with you.
I was only wanting to challenge common opinion, so many people say whatever they hear everyone else saying without even thinking why.
You thought this out, i respect that.
HOWEVER . .i still disagree with using the 'it's against the law argument' the law endlesslly proves to be fallable and not to serve those it's put in place for.
and most importantly i challenge you, and everyone, to think about who these people are in society, who you so easily label and segregate yourselves from.
Maybe they're not all thugs and petty criminals.
Maybe to them, this is important.
Who makes the rules?
Who are the rules made for?

you know, wat we really need is someone who tags to post and explian the dil . . .
anyone?

very disappointed to discover a NEVS tag on the bus this morning, courtz....ho hum.

cotheman, i also agree with u entirely, and as is quit obviouse from my previouse p[osts i dont aprove of tagger punks. What got me into this dispute was someone calling me stoopid for saying that if someone put a nice bomb on my fence id leave it there. I was always talking about pieces as compared to shity throw ups and even worse bull shit tags

yeah cool bro - i just strongly disagree (so to speak) with courtz' point - i cant stand that sorta shit.

i do realise that the law is filled with flaws and loopholes, etc - and thus some people are punished overly harshly while others get away relatively easily for a more serious crime. i aint out there to say 'dont do it, its against the law' (hell i aint perfect) but i do think that since its such a pointless, destructive offence, these delinquents should be remanded to discourage this type of shit.

for example if someone go and sprays something on the side of a company like 'Fuck this business is polluting our waterways' (or something similar u know) then i can respect that - even tho its illegal - because theyre voicing a worthwhile opinion.
but if some little punk bitch has no concerns and jst sprays a dirty tag, then i hav no time for that and he can die.maybe

u get the drift tho.......

um he can die is a bit extreme, and i dont think it is so seriouse that its worth someone getting in shit with the popo if it can be at all avoided

yea obvioulsy i dont mean actual death - it aint that bad - and 1st time offenders might get away with it, but i think the hard core should be penalised

u sound like a fed :/

hell i aint a policeman nor do i believe in their every action - i've had a few run-ins myself maximuss. however i do think that people who consistently flaunt the law should be let off - what sort of society does that?
ESPECIALLY when i personally dislike that shit newayz

ORACLE: I wasn't intending to dignify your arugment with a reply.

Your defense of tagging essentially revolves around a "Well fuck the law" attitude. You may not like individual portions of the law (I know I don't), and some may even be morally wrong, but that does give any individual the right to dismiss the law as irrelevant an outdated and thus to break it, and act in any way they like.

A fundamental of any economic system (communist included) is that property rights must be respected. Although in the communist system, typically these rights are communal, and the property of the state, and in a capitalist system they are individual rights - it does not make any difference. To have to right to your own property is to lead to a state of anarchy.

Yes, I have broken the law at times. However, I do not defend this by saying "well, the law is stupid" - i mostly do not defend it, or defend it with "it was a victimless crime". Although this is not in any way a justification or complete defense, it is vastly different that a crime which involves the property of another being. I find people who steal, defile and denigrate the property of others disgusting individuals. They contribute nothing to society from their actions.

There are other avenues in which such young people can be heard - and we should be trying to promote these avenues. However, as sorry as I do feel for some of the social, family and economic situations of this young people - I will not excuse them from destroying public and private property as they do.

To go off on a tangent briefly, an example of the psychology of taggers is demonstrated in Wellington, on the fence around Chaffer's park. The entire fence section was LEGALLY bombed (and fucking impressive too) and taggers have tagged over the bombs. I mean, really, what kind of respect is that showing to hip hop culture, which many taggers claim to be part of?

fuckn word to that Voice!

hmm

Graffiti in the form of bombings and murals are pretty cool i thinks, but i think that these maggots that go round writing things on walls (that are often spelt wrong) need to grow up and go to school for some lessons in spelling. Im not going to say anything about how its just their way of expressing themselves, cause they know what their doing is wrong. Farken punksz >

Well. I was kinda over the whole thing since maximuss put a finer point on it.
Except after reading ur post, voice, i feel my simple little point has been completely missed.

It's like: Skateboarders wanna skate, they can skate in parks, or on streets, two totally different things mind, so if a skater wants to street skate, he/she's gotta use the pavement.
In most paved places in the 'civilised' world, this form of recreation has been made illegal. Cuz some of the people in power don't like it (don't understand it). ANd especially in the US breaking these laws have serious ramifications - massive fines, even imprisoment. NOt to mention that street skaters all over the wolrd are often looked on as criminal scum by the police . .

Now! before you start squirming to reply saying "but skating aint taggin!!!" let me say that i think the similarity is this: A powerful few govern a world peopled with disempowered millions.
All people, ignorant, stupid, petty, riddled with bad taste . . . ALL people have a right to live in this world in the way that they wish . .so far as they don't impinge on the rights of others to do the same.

It's irrelevant that tagging is ugly, and boring, and that you don't like the people who do it, or that it's even illegal. What is relevant is tolerance for all people and their individual ways of life . . . .

Skaters need streets to skate
Taggers need walls to tag.

If you're gonna make the rules, then be sure to make ones that YOU wanna live by . . you never know when the finger of persecution will turn . .

P.S. I realise I'm probably gonna wake up tomorow morning to find my fence totally desecrated with punk ass taggings like 'krips' or sumthin utterly ridiculous, and you know what, i don't care, i'm down for a little bitter/sweet irony . . .

take it easy voice . . .

"All people, ignorant, stupid, petty, riddled with bad taste . . . ALL people have a right to live in this world in the way that they wish . .so far as they don't impinge on the rights of others to do the same. "

I agree. However, tagging someone else's private property impinges on the rights of an individual over their own property. They purchased that property with their own money, and thus it is theirs. Individual liberty doesn't give anyone the right to go around wrecking other people's stuff.

I'm sorry, I refuse to be tolerant of any "way of life" that involves the destruction of another person's rightfully earned property. If they want to tag walls, they should earn some money and buy some fucking walls of their own to tag.

lol throwing some paint up hardly makes a wall fall down. Its just myopinion, buitid rather have my wall painted then have some 13 year old having his first run ins with the law.

"ALL people have a right to live in this world in the way that they wish . .so far as they don't impinge on the rights of others to do the same"

agree with Voice.

maximuss: 'destruction' of a wall doesn't necessarily mean that the wall falls down. it's just that in the eye of the owner of that wall, he/she may not want some fag thoughtlessly vandalising it. if the '13 year old' isn't reprimanded by the police, then he will continue to tag until he at an age whereby he will be prosecuted for the offence. sorting the lil punk out early should get him on the straight and narrow.

skateboarding is a 'victimless' crime - unless u mow someone down. tagging affects someone everytime u press the nozzle on the can - the owner has to spend HIS hard earned cash erasing it. this impacts on the individual, who shouldn't have to take that shit.

if ur gunna make comparisons between skating and tagging, then why not compare tagging on a fence and tagging on, say, a car?
let's see, if some cock tagged ur car, which u had spent money (ur money) on purchasing and upkeeping, would u still feel the same way? to use ur logic oracle then we should have 'tolerance for all people and their individual ways of life'.

i didnt mean to imply everyone would, but as far asdim concerned its just a fence

weird . . .
Anyway, nice debating wid u guys
but bigga things to worry bout . . .
Look afta that fence now
One.

Definitely, oracle.

I hit up da walls and fencis hard bRo. I tag 'dick' and 'wank' cause Im coo.

Yah bitch mark me out and I smash yuse wif my bouyz.

i kick yo ass in street fiteaz 2 also.

I be dick and wank represent!








PS:

Pussy ass petty vandalism is retarded. What do you get out of it? Violence, and destruction of property.
Now a sick bomb/mural, I can definitely see the artistic qualities and respect them.

Man all respect to this forum, healthy debate on such a hot topic. If it wasn't for tagging there would be no bigger burners. My brother started a fresh wall with just one plain old black can, and lo and behold 3 years later the wall is absolutely covered in amazing graf-art. TAGGING IS THE SEED THAT SOWS GRAF.just check out how far its come in 20 years. Clothing labels are hilarious how they bite the graf style. WORD TO THE GRAF CREWS TAGGERS AND MARKER PEN WRITERS WORLD WIDE.

pff

graffiti art is big tags!

love it

whats up with Dissing Deceptikonz Frisk
?!

"I do appreciate
some of the more out there picture bombs, but
the big fancy wild-style or whatever-style word
bombs just look ugly and boring. I realise how
unhiphop this is but i'm simply not feeling any of
the bombs i see around town."
who the fuck cares what you think.
fuckn retard
graffiti is what it is and its never gonna stop
what what!!

being a writer myself i dnt agree with half of you on here.How you say "ohhh tagging is bullshit theres no talent in that"hmm right how many of you actually have ever touched a can and new how it felt 2 bust a dope tag???..jack shit aye yeah thought so..its fnny how people knock sumthin they cant do them selvez..and as for the no talent part ID LIKE TO SEE YOU TRY TAGGING..so many writers put time and effort into perfecting there tags..for clowns like you to come and knock them...who are you to say tagging is not an artform anyway???and taggings got nuthing to do with being a gangster thats just some fucked up image people have of taggers.SO FUCK ALL YOU HATERS. "GRAFF" i guess peeps are scared of what they dont understand.

Scared of what they don't understand?????- When people started tagging was it because they understood it or was it because they were influenced by seeing on tv/video/music vid/mags??????

<<<< The Origins of graffti/taggin has been endorsed from the States i don't think in the beginning when first being exposed to American street culture through i would assume would have been through media scape such as Video/film etc did we have it?
So thats why i cringe because its borrowed and copied - nothing original about it. - I'm not hating it, - i'm just hating the idiots that do it because they think they are talented and they're not. eg "Qurious187" or some bullshit like that.

Well i have an appreciation for picture bombings, but there clearly is a difference between pissing on walls and graffti "art", - i don't speak for everyone that posted on here but theres appreciation for the so called art when its not shitted over someone's fence or property.


That is all i have to say.

theres many different forms of graffiti
who judges what is or isnt "art"?

and yeah fuck all the faggots taking the piss out of this subject

Who judges what is art and whats not...


Oh yeah come and look at the art on my letter box and fence
YAY - Muthafuckers

eznow: "who the fuck cares what you think"
- jeez, this is a discussion forum. fuckn grow up & appreciate the fact that sum peeps dont wanna hav their shit tagged on....

westwriter: "new how it felt 2 bust a dope tag"
- hahah what a fuckn joke!! i'm sure it DOES feel impressive when u create an artwork thats taken effort and time 2 create, but scribbling 'WANKA' on a wall aint talent, no argument. and i dont care if u feel 'dope' 'busting' a tag on my fence, its my property, why dont u bust it on ur on fence huh?

cher

sorry mr.cothefag i dont do FENCES,CHURCHES,or BACKGROUNDS...HAHA no talent..show me yo steez bro,Then we'll see whos the joke...and serendipity yeah i guess your right america was a big influence,But it was also something the youth could relate to....but would you rather have dudes joining gangs trippin on drugs and shit.Or a victimless crime such as graff????????????????

i'd rather have neither... because alot of the reason why youth do this is because they are bored

how the fuck is tagging victimless? the victim is the owner of the area ur defacing....

also, i must make the connection between tagging and gangs. they're very closely related. remember a lot of tagging in the States began as gang members marking out their turf, showing their allegiances etc...
and here in NZ, tagging crews are pretty much small, unstructured gangs, often using intimidation and violence to try and prove some sort of superiority.

its all a large crock of shit, pointless and a waste of time & money.

I see taging as a way
2 get your can skill down
so u can do mad bombs and shit
like askew and phat and orphan do
that shit is dobe and if u don't like it
tuff its here 2 stay so get over it :\

an interesting read in retrospect

anyone got any new points to add...?

Usually tagging is just the first steps to becoming a good graffiti artist, unfortunatley alot of people don't ever move on

Tagging, from a writers point of view, is not the mad pieces with 3d and stuff, its just words written about. But there is no doubt that some can be done with crazy crazy style. Thats the type of tagging i like, if u go around town, sure u see the toys with crap tags, but there are some talented cats out there with crazy stuff.

In a sense it is an art, just a different medium, but i don't think society will ever FULLY accept it as an art.

il be different and say tagging is ok. Its like leaving ur mark, saying i was here. its not lke serious shit or anything, its just something u scribble, like saying i was here. i think its cool when u see someones tag that u know, i spose it is a bit messy but who gives a shit. most graff artists start out tagging or have done tagging. so thats coo

tagging/Bombing is a form of raging against the man. I can't help but to smile when i see the expressions of vandels. i love it. I don't care if it is a mini shit tag on the side of a mail box. it is anarchy to the system. ya it sounds a bit cleche but I think its bad ass, even if a little 12 year old did it. Why shouldn't people be allowed to express themselves on the sides of the wall?
It is true that certain people may find graf art obnixious and ugly, and I can understand that view. I just think its funny what a lttle bit of paint or marker can do in society.

In NY city they repainted all the trains after graf became huge. Why? Because middle class dill holes thought it was social anarchy and unaccpetable. I think it just provokes the taggers more. Its a battle. between the middle class and the undeground.

Its true hip hop in its purest form, crews battle. Break dance, graff, djing, and acceptance.

Nothing beats the feeling of driving pass where you threw up a sick bomb that represents a social upheavel. it may be a bit immature but fck i got away with it. And so can you.

whether it be a tag, a throw up, a bomb, a sketch whatever - it is all a part of the graffiti culture - unfortunatly it ain't so real anymore which isn't all bad it means money can be made from it - but back in the day it was such an ill culture (not talking from experience) it never used to be in mags, or on the internet, it was on a train, a wall and it was free,.. now it all costs money, graf is marketed, may not be right or wrong but its different now everything evolves eventually.....

cuse my blabbering here, i just have alot of respec for the art and the culture and it's all a part of the culture - a small tag of someones name is where they first get inspiration to turn that shit into an ill piece

This is the guy that started it all---->
Taki 183:Initiator of Tagging
At about the same time as Keith Haring, a delivery messenger began writing "Taki 183" whenever he delivered documents. Soon his name was all over the city. Newspapers and magazines wrote articles about him and Keith Haring. Both became celebrities. This claim to fame attracted many young people, especially those involved with rapping. They began to imitate "Taki 183".

And another bit from the same article outta interest fo yo all......

While most taggers are simply interested in seeing their name in as many places as possible and as visibly as possible, some taggers are more contented to find secluded warehouse walls where they can practice their pieces. Some of these taggers are able to sell twelve foot canvases of their work for upwards of 10 - 12 thousand dollars

its all good and well until it affects you. until somebody scribbles their gay fuckn alias on ur fence or letterbox...

and everytime you walk out ur driveway its sitting there, and it pisses u off, cos its like some little weasel is going 'hahah fuck u i tagged ur fence"

that irritates me.

it cracks me up

i see it all the time, and i just laugh

then do a better one over it

After reading this all it made me think of the Paul Holmes show a few weeks back, debating about submitting art to Venice from an artist that created a toilet with the donkey sounds..
I thought it was pretty hilarious and the artists idea was really different.

Well no point really