starmart saturation

following on from the "satanbucks" thread, am I the only one feeling a little uneasy by the antics of starmart? do we REALLY need a starmart on every block? do we REALLY like the fact that they are pushing out little delis and inner-city markets? In Wellington they just took out a lease in Lambton Square to push out the long-standing fruit and veg shop, a deli and a little supermarket. Then once all the businesses had closed down "oh ooops silly us we don't really think we want to go in to that location after all" so now we have NOTHING, just a poxy Starmart a whole minutes walk away on the Terrace. Guaranteed once all the other businesses are shut down Starmart will start closing stores.
24 hr convenience vs anti-competitive saturation policy.
Discuss.

excellent topic RD, starmart are actually much further advanced in the process than starbucks are.
we really have adapted to the 24hr culture very quickly in typical New Zealand fashion. i get fucked off now if i can't buy a loaf of bread and a jar of sundried tomatoes at 4am now - what the hell is with that?

Saturation isn't anti-competitive! It's competition! By having many outlets a business can spread their fixed costs more evenly, and possible engage in economies of scale.

The industry is very easy to enter and exit from (low cost) and so if they were to close a whole load of Starmarts after pushing out the small stores, new ones would pop up. Convenience stores do not exactly have a loyal customer base or any 'lock-in' abiltiies really, so it's probably a very competitive industry.

If you like the little delis and grocery stores, support them - but if not enough people go to them, too bad - they'll go bankrupt. It just happens that people like the convenience of being able to find a Starmart wherever they go, the long opening hours are the relatively standard product range. It's pretty shrewd marketing if you ask me, and such is the world of business.

The small places have to come up with some sort of competitive advanatage that will make them appeal to enough people.

I agree with you voiceinsideyou, but it is still a bit annoying that we may end up with the situation where the only place you can go and get a snack from is a Starmart ...wheres the variety in life disappearing to?

Soon, we'll end up like all the movies set in the future, all wearing identical uniforms.

i think that in NZ we have our own form of market control in that we tend to shy away from the sanitised, fluoro lit, bulk buy places. who actually enjoys going in to a starmart at 3am to buy a drink? unfortunately in the states this has become a way of life, but i don't think that this will ever happen in NZ.

harvey: Yup - I agree. Consumers value choice in such things, and if they value it enough there'll be money to be made in setting up a competing chain, or competing store with some kind of decent differentiation from Starmart.

In this case, markets will work. If people don't want to go to Starmarts and there's neough of them, something better will appear. Maybe you're right TVP, and if so, Starmart won't make money and Caltex will end the venture. In the meantime, support the smaller operators if you want to keep 'em going.

In Wellington we have Citystops, incidentally - sometimes two doors down from Starmart! They offer a similar service, except they're only 7/11s usually, except the one on Courtney Place. Personally, I think the Starmart venture has been good. I'm all for 24r stores and knowing that wherever you go, if you see the familiar colours/logo you know it'll be open.

Found it quite useful when I was up in Auckland for NYE.

i don't like the idea of the local deli's going bankrupt, but i've never been a big fan of the 'kiwi dairy' From my experience, they are dirty little stores, with over-priced, expired products. i would definately choose to visit citystop, or a starmart instead... generally cleaner, with fresher products...
they don't normally offer specialty products, so i am sure the deli will survive...
i think it is us that has demanded that shops stay open longer, and these chains have provided...

Do Starmarts stock NOS? If they take over the dairies on k'rd they bloody better!

my friends were going to suggest that they sell glow sticks!! for those last minute emergencies
but NOS is a good one

RD: you should see the saturation in Auckland - you can see a starmart from any one place on Queen St.

Starmart's anticompetitive approach to killing off citystop in wellington is nothing short of pure evil.
As I understand it, starmart set up next door in a deliberate attempt to choke citystop into liquidation - using the other stores to cross-subsidise the loss-making venture on manners st. Once citystop is (was?) gone, starmart can then happily premium the cost of any franchise store to owners, driving up costs to owners and the prices for consumers. It's worse than telecom v clear.

I know from a reliable source that Starmart have taken out short-term-only leases on many of their sites, and once they have driven the competition out of business, will shut half their stores down. So we lose BOTH ways.
PS I love dairies, I always make a point of supporting my local as much as possible.

Its kinda like dumping in a way. Saturating the market to drive out competition, then once you have control of the market, hiking up the price.

But once they shut those ones down, other ones could start back up again and make money, as if the Starmarts were never there. The startup/capital costs in such an industry are very low.

It's competition, if they hiked up the price after driving a competitor out, someone else could come in and do the same thing to Starmart.

I think you guys confuse competition with anti-competitive. If it was anti-competitive, the Commerce Commission would be at it pretty quickly. Starmart are limited in their future behaviour by "threat of entrry" which will tend to drive their prices down to competitive prices. Stop scaremongering, I don't think it'll be that bad....!

Telecom vs. Clear is quite different clearly, as Telecom has control of a huge network/infrastructure resource, which poses a large barrier to entry. Hence external competitive pressures are subdued, and anti-competitive behaviour is more likely to occur.

voice, wanna start a new thread on the telecom/clear one, cos I could go on for ages on that score... let's just say I disagree with your premises on all counts. but that's all good.

anyway, away from these mundane discussions and let's get to the heart of the problem: starmarts are just aesthetically sheit. nuff said.

I'm not sure what you thought I was trying to say - but it's clear (har har) that Telecom tried to anti-competitively crush Clear Comms - I agree with you, if that's also your opinion!

I was just saying that I think the situation is different with Starmarts as the competitive environment in teecommunications is quite different than that for small convenience stores.

Telecommunications in NZ:
- large start-up costs, network investments needed
- monopoly supplier controlling network w/ limited regulatory oversight
- reliance for smaller operators on the network operator, who is also a competitor
- risk of being locked in costly litigation
- inherently risky indutry, high technolohical investment required
- cashflow sensitive

Convenience stores:
- minimal start-up costs
- competitive supplier relationships
- many small stores, no reliance on a market leader
- easy to enter industry if excess profits being made by one marker player
- locational dependence

That's what I see as the differences, but anyway, as you say - back to the heart of the problem, as you say.

Personally, I like the cleanness of Starmarts at 4am! And that there didn't used to be (and aren't) other places open that late usually. Well, except Citystop in Wgtn that I know of, and I go there too.

So is Citystop still around? In both places?

yeh there are 2 Citystops in Wellington that I know of: the Crtney Place one and the one on the Terrace.

Yeah they are. The courtney one is still open 24hrs at the weekend too. I go there 90% of the time when at Phoenix.

They have a bigger selection of stuff too, and they do takeaways. Better pies!

Oh well, whatever will be will be. I just don't like the starmarts.

Fair call. There's a hot chick working at one of the Starmarts in Wellington though. Of course, all ideological, practical or consumer-based reasoning goes out the door when hot chicks @ Starmart are involved.

*grin*

Yeah, but why is the hot chick working at starmart I always have to ask myself...

No-one can deny that star marts are rife all along queen st and K Rd. I mean really.. why on earth would they need so many stores in such a concentrated area. Bring back good old dairies I say.

Yeah, but they weren't open 24hrs.

Starmart is good in the wee hours of the morning, but they tend to be expensive.

dont u h8 when u write an essay then realise the convo is a week old?

Whats the big deal about Starmarts? Its not like they're selling something like coffee, which I AM fussy about. They're just selling convenience food.
Who cares if all their shops look the same? Its not like I go to Starmart for the ambience. I go there to buy airwaves, chupa chups, the occasional pie and Arano juice.

very good point transtemporal;......

another angle in here is just wot woz required!

Let it go guys! let it go! its a dairy!

Do you guys think theres a niche market for a 24hr food place that has stuff like sushi, wraps and PROPER kebabs as well as takeaway food? I was just talking about this last night with some clubkids who hadn't eaten since 12 midday and wanted something nice that wasn't crap.

BTW, all you Wellington Biggies: Wellington has the best kebabs. The ones in Auckland are dodgy as fuck. I miss kebabholic.

no, wot are u on about brother!

Baba's Kebabs on Ponsonby!! I'd do (almost) anything for a chicky kebab form there!!

There's definitely a need for 24hr access to real food (as opposed to pies & Cookie TImes).. And on that note, has anyone been to Wishbone? Worth it?

As far as Starmart goes, I will patronise them... except for the one next to city stop on COurrtney place - the reason being that City Stop has chocolate orange, Big Red, and Hershey's stuff.... things Starmart doesn't carry.

lol purplelollie, I know the starmart near Studio9 is overwhelmed with us at like 4am hehe....

I'm sure that guy thinks I'm a crazy lady :0)

are you patronising me thepurplelollie!!??

I would agree 'real food' is better than 'Starmart crap-ahoola' anytime.

Transtemporal - you cant have tried the kebab's at Babba's!!?? have you?

shit, im bored, work is soo slow... and i have no really nice ladies to chat to, apart from the usual ofcourse.....

Is babba's the kebab shop next to Krome? Ink?

If so, they're O.K. but nothing great. Wellington still wins.

No no, I'm pretty sure purplelollie was talking about the starmart attendant dopespOt!

whoa... no, I'm not patronising you, dopespOt! I was talking about the starmart geezer in Manners Mall!

Funny how our posts can get misinterpreted, didnit think you could patronise anyone girl

hehee... I choose to use my powers only for good, sunshine :0)

no dood, Babba's is next to the pool hall opposite that wicked chinese place and St Arnou just towards K Rd from burger Fuel/ Safari....

yeah, ok, guess i took that one to heart, (just takin the piss ok?) its just hard after a hard night out alright!! eeek brite lite!

Ah, THAT Babba's. Call me crazy but isn't that Ponsonby road?

Yeah, they do have pretty good Kebab's! Good call. They're actually the best ones I've found in Auckland so far but still not quite right. Its not quite spicy enough for me!

I'll keep looking I guess, for that magical Kebab place. I'm a lot like Jim Carradine in Kung Fu, forever looking for the perfect kebab...

mmmm, Bubba's Kebabs. You guys have got me hungry now ...yes its on Ponsonby road quite close to my work and flat

hmmm Kebabs - good idea for dinner I think

is that wot i said? ponsonby rd that is?

yes thats wat i said, ok, 'transtemporal is crazy'

Is he Crazy????? Aren't we all a little Crazy ???

I'm pretty crazy alright. I could've sworn you said k-road. I'm losing it. Must be that happy, goey sentimental trip I'm on today!

hehe good on ya matie