Spies seek new power for World Cup

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10692805

Is anyone concerned that this seems to be getting sneaked through without any real debate? There was a tiny page 3 bit about it in the Herald today. Haven't been watching the news, has there been any mention?

Seems funny that they're using the Worcl Cup to jusifty pushing it through so quickly ... couldn't this have started to happen when we won theh World Cup bid?

Its not really being sneaked through.

It was started some time ago, how do you think they get to the point to table it? Laws dont (usually) get dreamed up over night. Often they get written in draft and sometimes not even by parliament, anyone can write a law and propose it to an MP who can submit it to the draw.

Also, I would suspect that the SIS have already been doing these sorts of things as the law didnt cover them or rule them out because they didnt exist 40 year ago.

It seems absurd that our intelligence department could do such things. The scaremongering around it is just hippies looking for publicity.

its not being sneaked through as bob has said and the changes aren't that draconian compared to other laws that have been passed under JK watch... but the process should be way more public (imo) and Keys comment was just fucked

“It won’t be in the public interest to have it open, for a whole bunch of reasons I don’t want to go into,”

I'm sorry John but that doesn't cut it

The world cup justification is plain pathetic - how many times will this govt abuse the RWC to pass laws they desire that have little bearing on that event

its a bit of a storm in a tea cup with underlying themes that are significant (freedom/privacy etc) but only in a wider context of recent law changes

Fuck, we really have come a long way if being concerned about privacy issues is now somehow a hippy concern :/

hug a hippy today, sometimes they seem to be the only ones who care

you really need to change the hippy bob record, its played out as a DJ would say

yeah fair enough, I was being deliberately inflammatory. I could however point out you have several broken records of your own.

Personally, I have no concerns with SIS powers - the more the merrier imo as long as each and every warrant goes through said current or ex high court judge as is the case at the moment. Once they have reasonable grounds to look into someones activities then there shouldnt be any passive (interception) areas that are out of bounds. We are still only talking 11-15 a year on average.

Tbh we dont need an SIS
NZPOL can do all we need

thats 35 million the govt could save then - yes?

IMO ... why not have a sort of MI5/MI6 or even CIA/FBI split

FBI handles domestic coterr and coesp in USA, CIA foreign
Our SIS could hand over domestic responsibilities to NZPOL and let SIS do the overseas stuff

Not saving, just reallocation

After alll, the biggest national security investigation in NZ history was an NZPOL op not an NZSIS op

what was that? The Rainbow warrior?

how much overseas stuff do we even do?

It would be 35mil added to the police budget.

I think its better to have it as a separate budget so it doesnt get cut back on to buy some new uniforms.

Yeah, that's my biggest concern. Why shouldn't this to be up for a bit of public scrutiny? And, even if this is somehting that needs to get done, why push it through using the RWC as a reason about why it has to be rushed through?

you want details on a secret agency to be public?

The details of the legislation that determines how a govt agency functions, yes

the confidential details of that agencies work, not if its will compromise that work, but the checks and balances they operate under for sure

Yeah, I agree BD. And someone mentioned that there should at least be an objective group/person (maybe Minister of Defense?) who would have access to all the going ons. That wouldn't be like this information being publically available, but would ensure that a NZ Government representative at least was up to speed with what's going on.

I'm sure that the relevant ministers are kept abreast of what the agency is upto as a matter of course

So despite not knowing anything about how this agency works you are up in arms about the secrecy? Everything the SIS does is checked by a sitting or ex high court judge.

As Key said, If people want to make their own submissions public then that is fine but the process will not as a whole be public.

Ignorance, storm, teacup.

transparency... open govt... democracy

communist countries expect blind obedience bob

So you think every thing including police information should be accessible to anyone without restraint?

Communist countries can go suck a dick for all the relevance it has to this discussion. Theres no blind obedience suggested, so i'm not sure what tree you're barking up.

you do understand I'm talking about the proposed changes and process of formulating policy not the every day affairs of these organisations?

you're seemingly advocating blind trust - thats not something anyone in a democracy should adhere to

which proposed changes?

The day to day procedures are what will need to be discussed and if public they will be taken up with grand standing by paranoid 'hippies' :p

SIS is a group I am happy enough to leave to their devices with suitable oversight (which I believe is already in place).

If you ever met any of them I think your trust would dissipate

Same could be said of many cops which I have met.