Sonny B W Should Play for the All Blacks

Without a doubt. Tell me why not if you have a reason?*

Roman already pointed in the other rugby thread that criterea for AB selection includes playing NZ provincial rugby.

Of course, that law was probably made in 1905....

Ummmm, because he has yet to demonstrate he has the desire? So far, all I see is a lazy gadfly chasing the dollars. He seems to be an almighty natural talent, but to be an All Black requires a level of commitment and discipline I have seen no evidence of so far. Some people blame bad advice from his agent, but I don't buy that - he can change agents, if he wishes.


It is like the old saying, the boss prefers the 80% guy who reliably turns up every morning on time and ready to perform to a predictable level to the 110% wizz-kid who is unreliable and often hungover.

I for one really hope he signs up and redeems himself for his Bulldogs walkout... I suspect he'll carve up in the NPC/Super Rugby and will make the WC squad easily if he signs with the NZRU

Who knows, he might even help them reach a WC final! ^_^

Would love to see SBW in the All Blacks, but he has to prove himself, and will need to perform at NPC then S15 level first

Imagine how lethal he could be outside of DC and with Conrad Smith hanging off his offload!

How many people have actually seen him play rugby?

Apart from the odd clip on the news of course.

I have watched him play few games. One thing he does, like every League convert, is he gets isolated and turned over very easily.

But, when he's running and off loading, he's lethal. With good coaching staff, I believe he should do very well in Union.

However I've said this before, I'd rather see him play League. This is what he's best at.

LOL
Up till now, he hasn't played against REALLY strong/powerful players
The first time he gets caught up in a maul with someone like Andries Bekker who has the sheer power to simply bend him backwards and snap him in close quarters, we'll see how "awesome" he is

Too many people forget that league is all about running/high speed movement. League players do NOT have the same close quarters, wrestling, body technique abilities

Sure...but that consideration is simply overwhelmed when we are dealing with an individual of SBW's calibre. Its logical that a superstar league player with every skill in the book will be AT LEAST...a very good rugby player.

oh and Bekker could do no such thing to SBW Z. lol tho

Wrestling has a huge part in league Vads. Pretty much every NRL side has a wrestling expert come in and coach their players. It lead to a(nother) Melbourne scandal with their use of "chicken wing" techniques etc.

More to do with technique. He was getting penalised for holding on etc when I watched him play. He has the ability to stay up tho, so just practice needed to execute it correctly. So he has his advantages and disadvantages.

Well we've seen Brad Thorn switch effortlessly between the highest tiers of League and Union, and he played lock which is arguably more of a specialist position (and therefore more different across the two codes) than inside-centre where SBW is playing...

In all honesty I think Brad Thorn is more hardworking player than SBW will ever be. He probably spent hours just perfecting ruck/maul/scrum techniques. I just don't think SBW has the same drive and patience.

Again, I'm not saying that SBW is useless, rather he's erratic/loose cannon, who can turn out to be a liability.

So wrestling has a bigger part in league than rugby, where scrummaging and mauling are such major parts of the game?
The only wrestling involved in league is "tackle wrestling". Mauls and scrums = much more like real power wrestling

Andries Bekker could eat a pavement and SHIT A POODLE

Great move for SBW, I think he has every chance to becoming an All Black great. I hope he plays outside Carter it would really help his game. It would be a sick combo as well. Carters kicking, passing & vision,.SBW 's power, step, offload, D.. He is only 24 so could be around for ages if smashes it.

Hmmm.. I would rather see him at 13 then right outside Carter. Purely because of the type of a player he is. You need a distributor at 12. SBW is cannon ball, hard running and off loading style, would be perfect for a 13. That and I'm super biased cause my mate plays the 12 jersey. Let's hope he does enough to push out McAlister.

Hmmm.. I would rather see him at 13 then right outside Carter. Purely because of the type of a player he is. You need a distributor at 12. SBW is cannon ball, hard running and off loading style, would be perfect for a 13. That and I'm super biased cause my mate plays the 12 jersey. Let's hope he does enough to push out McAlister.

Hmmm.. I would rather see him at 13 then right outside Carter. Purely because of the type of a player he is. You need a distributor at 12. SBW is cannon ball, hard running and off loading style, would be perfect for a 13. That and I'm super biased cause my mate plays the 12 jersey. Let's hope he does enough to push out McAlister.

What the shit... stupid Biggie.

I didn't say it was "bigger", I said that it has a huge part which was in response to your claim that wrestling doesn't feature in league. Winning tha tackle plays a huge part in momentum in league and momentum is what wins games. So you better believe that coaches spend hours and hours coaching players how to turn tackled players on their backs in the tackle or conversely, how to stop it or achieve dominant positioning etc.

Its our Jubilee year so Sonny Bill for North Harbour!

Like that's gonna be hard. McAlister seems to get injured just thinking about playing rugby these days.

I don't want him to be injured. Seriously, injuries suck big time and can have a massive impact on your life. I'm sure Benson will do awesomely well and will retain that spot for Tri Nations.

Yeah I would agree to a point. I think he would could go well in the centres given that he would have more space. Not many players would be able to tackle him 1 on 1 and stop the offload. The only problem could be his positional play on defence - centres need to be able to read the game well. All and all though I think he will definitley add value to the AB's. Looking forward to seeing how he goes and cant wait to see him smash some people.. I think teams will be thinking twice before running a 2nd/5 crash ball at SBW. He could potentailly be Umaga V2.0.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10654063

Called it, again. Dynasty in the making.

How is that possible? Won't it breach the Cantebury polynesian quota?

BEST #12S IN NZ

1. BENSON STANLEY
2-76. ASSORTED PLAYERS IN NPC AND CLUB RUGBY
77. LUKEY MAC
78. SBW

hahaha... awwww. vadz, I'll tell him you have a man crush on him. I think his wife might have a something to say about that.

hell yeah you called it doof doof. Who would have thought SBW would end up at Canterbury. You da man

Wow, scratch his eyes out bitch!

lol. That WAS pretty harsh. SORRY DOOF.

Just tell him he's awesome bcause
1. he's AUCKLAND captain
2. he's won a trophy (hear that,Lukey Mac?)
3. he doesn't fucking put in pointless chips

Just tell him to elevate his kicks a little because the first time he gets charged down in a test is going to be nasty

Ajnd tell him to SMASH SBW in the S15!!

I'd rate the resurgent McAlistair head andd shoulder above any other second five in the country on his performances for the Maori. You could see him improving and getting back into the best form I've ever seen him in. Cowan, Carter, McAlistair, Smith, Guilford, Jane and Dagg with SBW, Gear, Muliana and Weepu comng off the bench (I would drop Nonu for SBW) is a mouth wateringly strong backline.

Who the fuck is "McAlistair"? If you don't even have the head for details like spelling you sure as fuck don't understand the details of 2nd five play.

Stanley = better than Lukey Mac, end of topic. He's captained Auckland to an unbeaten NPC title

END
OF
TOPIC

bump for truth..

Problem with Luke Mc is he's well past the point of the ABs ever relying on him to be in-form and injury-free for an acceptable length of time to bother considering him. It doesn't matter how unlucky/unjust it might seem but even when Luke Mc has been fit he's been unremarkable a few too many times on the big stage.

Ref to my post from a few months ago for a 'see, I told you so'.

I guess all we can do is sit and wait to see if he messes up or not!

Luke needs a season or two of Super Rugby to bring him back up to speed, turns out going to europe in your early 20's wasnt such a hot idea as it changed his game, and adjusting it back will take time. he will be an All Black again though for sure. Big season for the Blues coming right up

Doubt he'll want to stay to wait around tbh. With so many injuries he's got to consider his family and ever shortening career first I would think.



gc.

Lukey Mac won't be an All Black again.......


Plus he tackles with his head

Whilst I'm inclined to agree, I think one Mr Daniel Braid just showed us that with the right decisions, form, and a little sprinkling of good fortune the dream is never over.



gc.

You guys are probably right, I guess what i meant was if he does stay at home and injury free then he will/should make it. way too early to write him off imo, what is he 27

I dunno, being a harbour man and coming from the same vintage as McAllistair I always supported him... but it could be a stretch for him to make it back. I think there is just to much young talent coming through. Particularly as he hasnt established himself in the team and hes 26/27.. he aint no frank bunce. And whoever is in charge after the WC will be looking to bring through new blood.

On a side note... why the fuck did Donald get in the touring party? He has got to be letting one of the coaches plow him? From memory hes had one good cameo off the bench for the AB's and thats it.. surely Slade is now the heir apparent to DC??

I would say Piri snapping his leg opened the door for Donald Duck. Couple of good ITM games and he is in?

Everyone with an ounce of rugby knowledge knows as soon as he pulls on the Black Jersey, he turns to shite. It has been proven over and over and over again.


Good at provincial/Super level- shite at International.

Well as I said above Uncle Ted said that Donald is in the 'form of his life', so would stand to reason that they pick him.



gc.

I guess bro but as they say - form is temporary, class is permanent. Unfortunately Donald has no class, hes strictly 100% journeymen. A way better option wouldve been to invest in Slade who has look all class over the past 12 months.

Would anyone seriously want Donald to be starting in the WC final if Carter is injured??

Donald should get sent home. He is fucking rubbish. He isnt playing behind a big wesley pack anymore.

SBW would be a much better option at 1st 5 than Stephen fucking Donald, probably a much better goal kicker too.

viewpoints? I havent seen either of his games.

He is the business, and getting better every week. Once he starts backing himself as well as just looking to offload it'll be good night nurse for ANY opposition.

looking good. he is definitely proving himself!

Just watched him
Mediocre. League instincts still. Offloads are working for now but it's like a batsman who backs away and carves over cover - looks good until someone works it out, and it's high risk. Lacks top end speed, tackling form good, positioning poor. No kicking ability despite being played at 2nd 5. Not yet tested under the high ball, which he will face. Too reliant on brute strength and raw power rather than skill.

No kicking ability? He's put in a couple of pretty sweet grubber kicks in recent games. Sure, he didn't kick this morning. But why kick when he doesn't need to?

PS. lol @ your stubborness.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/4343296/Sonny-Bill-creates-nice-dilemma-for-All-Blacks-coaches


Off-loads can be real risky but he seems to be very aware of where his support is and he knows how many defenders he's drawing in. If he only draws one of the defenders and the other is hanging off for the off-load i'd hope he's big enough to break the tackle and if not, take it to ground.
It'll be interesting to see if Canterbury try play him on blindside next year.

Mate, are you taking the piss? Mediocre? He was man of the match. In his second ever test. He almost dominated the game from 2nd/5 and his skill and potential was there for all to see.

Rugby in the backs is all about creating space, the overlap and letting the ball beat the man.. Thats the kind of free flowing attacking rugby the AB's are trying to play. SBW has the perfect skill set and all the attributes to do this.

Or just break the line himself. Time will be the judge.

It's not and never has been a secret about his offloading ability. Just because you are aware of it and have figured out that it's a major part fo his game, does not mean you have the capability to stop him doing it.

lol poor vadz. I only bothered with the highlights package but it must be driving your hatin' crazy to listen to the commentators sucking SBW's nob. Then theres Henry saying he has skills "never seen before from a rugby player"

SBW was an elite league player but there were quite a few like him, I think we can conclude that if a dozen or so top league players went to rugby the sport would become significantly more watchable

Just like nobody ever figured out the next great mystery spinner, Mendis, right?
Oh that's right. They did figure him out.

And how many world cups has this style won exactly?

Your apple seems to taste like an orange.

As good as he played on Sunday I can see his style of offloading (and carrying) backfiring monumentally one day against a top team like Australia who - for years - have got tries off the back of ill-thought passes/offloads (intercepts or otherwise) by the ABs.

Very promising effort from him tho - but Scotland are not much threat to the All Blacks. Wait till we see how he plays when the pressure is really lumped on, not against kooks, before he gets hailed as a legend.

Yea, that's how i see it and so does Richie McCaw. From the quote earlier

Defenders risk him breaking the defensive line if they don't tackle him in the hope they grab an off-load. Scotland made him look good because he was drawing in a lot of defenders and he knows when to off-load.

yes he's had his day - hate to say it, but he's a bit of a lame duck now

One trick ponies never flourish

Give me Ice - who has ONE thing you cannot counter: sheer pace, as well as the ability to step off both feet and a good kicking game.

<3 to see SBW vs. Ice over 40 yards :>

What else does Ice have? A tendency to brainfart...

But in terms of things you can't counter, this is what I was talking about when saying that just because you know something about a player doesn't mean you have the capability to stop it.

But lets not kid ourselves here, SBW has not been tested yet. We'll see how he holds up when he hasd to play South Africa.

well I've now seen the England game and wasnt particularly impressed (with SBW) , and that bad pass to Carter was nearly very costly. So far then, meh. In my mind someone who gets a favoured path should be so much better its obvious even in one game.

So no performance jitters or any pressure of any sort should effect someone on their debut game ? Did you see the follow up peat where he was man of the match ?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/4368799/We-are-in-safe-hands-with-a-sensation-such-as-Sonny-Bill

good article for the SBW haters :>

resist - well no, they shouldnt really, because if they're being promoted so quickly then selectors etc should take that into account, and its not like he hasnt played sport at a very high level before....
I will be watching the Scotland game very soon. (I assume thats the one you mean)

scotland were valiant but not testing enough, so lots of the AB's shone. even Donald looked good lol but Gear and Isovea all had better games than this league dude. hes a big bastard tho and not at all bad obviously - I'm not saying he wont perform but still imo, he hasnt yet.
lots of depth is not a bad thing tho.

hes a new guy

Now that Noodle is talking about a Boxing bout a few months out from the RWC.....

Priorites?

Passion for the Jumper

.

.

.

.

.

He's just going to fight another chump that he knocks out without breaking a sweat. It's not that much of a big deal.

Yeah who gives a shit? Even if he gets knocked the fuck out (unlikely) it's barely going to be a blip on his preparation radar. Don't be so fucken precious.

1) Builds profile for himself, and thus drives ratings & revenue for NZRU
2) Meaningless, fun money maker for SBW
3) The training and conditioning required for boxing is extremely intense anyway
4) It's nigh on impossible for him to do a serious injury like a a hammy, achilles or ankle etc
5) He's just come through an end of year rugby tour, I'm pretty sure he'll be sweet going a few rounds with some padded gloves on

The guy is a machine and will like embarrass whoever he fights. Come down from the tall poppy and see it for what it is.

SBW for Prime Minister!



gc.

"Passion for the jumper" is one of those retarded phrases that can gtfo imo :>

And has absolutely nothing to do with this scenario anyway!



gc.

The fight is in January that gives him fuckloads of time to recover for the RWC... if he needed it, which he won't. If the fight was in June/July I would have an issue.. but not this far out.

I'll put money on it that he becomes a professional boxer after the world cup. He'll have done league and union and seems like it'll be the natural progression.. I think he'll be pretty handy as well..

How quicjkly things change!
Herald headline today :Writing on the wall for SBW?

gosh, we truly are a bunch of sports prophets, aren't we?

"A MAN'S ENTITLED TO CHANGE HIS MIND"

QFT

especially if you are SBW!

Great article by rattue on this today. Seriously ....haterz GTFO

totally agree... the worst are the people who were fawning over him when he came over to NZ and are now hating him for (most likely) going. The guy is only playing the same game the different administrations in both rugby and league are playing, but doing it better than 95% of the players out there.

NZRU dropped the ball on this one big time

How have NZRU dropped the ball?

SBW has only proved to be the 3rd or 4th best midfielder in the country and will inevitably spend the majority of the RWC sitting on the bench... so I doubt if he left NZ it would cause the NZRU to re-visit their international player ineligibity rules. (They didn't budge with Carl Hayman and Nick Evans remember who are of more use to the ABs).

Don't get me wrong I love SBW and hope he gets better at union but he's really just a pawn to Nasser and Mundine - who are self-entitled, deluded cuntstains.

3rd or 4th? You mean...a close 2nd behind the world number one. Not to forget SBW has only been in NZ rugby for ....~1 season?... and Manu has been playing thugby all his life

well w/e..read the article

It seems weird how people have demoted SBW to being so far behind Smith and Nonu because of a couple of average games... he wasn't terrible against the Boks at all imo. He also absolutely *dominated* in the beginning of the S15 and some parts of the end of teh year tour last year. Give him some time and he could easily surpass Nonu at 12 imo...

There's also the promotional aspect to SBW which Rattue writes about in the article... he would be fucking HUGE for the Blues. I mean, did anyone see the piss-poor attendance numbers at Eden Park this year? AKLers just don't care all that much anymore, which has to be a problem for NZ rugby. SBW is the kind of player that can change that...

^ True that.

Would LOVE to see SBW play for the Blues!

In 2007 he said "I love the Bulldogs. I want to be a Bulldog for LIFE"

err - look what happened there

then prior to becoming an All Black he went on about how being an All Black was the ultimate dream etc etc - no sooner had he said that, he launched into a parallel boxing career, and is now implying he may not even stick around past the World Cup

he might well be a rugby "star" but he is a star facing a backlash in NZ

it's quite possible for "stars" to lose the love of their fan-base

perhaps he should ask himself what is it about his behaviour that is generating this backlash? the truth is he is rapidly undermining and eroding the considerable goodwill he had built up.

He's "turning his back" on the NZRU because he's not being allowed the same concessions given to others...

quote=justhanging]In 2007 he said "I love the Bulldogs. I want to be a Bulldog for LIFE"

err - look what happened there
.[/quote]


What happened there was, a bunch of senior Bulldogs all said that to get him to sign for less. Those senior players (Willie Mason etc) then promptly left for bigger deals.

Read the article JH, i makes a lot of sense. Also

# As far as I know he hasnt turned his back at all, there are just commercial conflicts holding things up

# He was open about his boxing desires from the get go, Henry even attended one of his bouts!

The problem is that the WC ends something like 4 or 5 days before S15 squads get announced so most people are thinking he won't have time to negotiate a deal with a S15 in that time...

I DID read it

he's entitled to his opinion, but I don't have have to agree with everything the writer says (and plenty of people don't, if the Herald comments section is anything to go by)

Actually the article contains a lot of negative comments about SBW, coupled with minimisation and excuses:

"I'm not a fan of Williams' behaviour - what he did to the Canterbury Bulldogs was unforgivable. It still annoys me. But there are far greater crime against humanity..."

"He's also stuffed up his own rugby career so far."

"He still lacks the rugby instincts but they will come."

"Yes, he gets a few things wrong...."

etc etc

Yes rattue acknowledges thoe things because he'a a professional. He wasnt always on SBW's side, in fact he pillored him for years over the Bulldogs thing. but he's ben turned around by whats he has seen and the overriding message is he knows SBW is worth the bother,

. Pointing out others in the herald comments section agree with you is pretty hilarious, taking a stand with NZ's bog standard tall poppy haters justhanging? Youre smarter than that

The public "turning" on SBW isn't at all surprising. His carpetbagging his way straight into the Crusaders and All Blacks was grudgingly accepted by NZ rugby fans because they were assured that SBW wasn't just good, he was a world cup winning game changing superstar. The premise was he was due exceptional treatment because he was an exceptional talent. Until he decided to bugger off and do his last fight, he seemed to be fufilling the hype and was winning over the skeptics. But since then, his progress has stalled or even gone backwards. He is now firmly number two again behind Nonu. Unexceptional players deserve unexceptional treatment - so people are now re-visiting the reasons given for his arm chair ride into the All Blacks, and questioning his commitment to NZ rugby now it seems he wants to go because he can't be number one in the lollipop line.

SBW is an unexceptional player now?