should Chris Kahui be left alone?

I believe he probably was involved in the death of his babies but I cant imagine for a second that the coverage of his every step is helping him or his family...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10632355

No. I'm quite happy to see him antagnoised ... doubt it's nearly as harsh as what those babies went thru.

Why are we so obsessed with the minutae of the behavior of criminals, or those who might be criminal, even though this will not make one scrap of difference to the volume and type of crime in society, and why are we so disinterested in social strategies that will lead to real prevention?

Oh that's right, its becasue the media have understood that it is far easier to generate an audience, and revenue therefore from advertising, through the former means rather than from the latter.

***K I HATE YOU MEDIA.

Yeah I hate how the media were picking on Girl Guide Biscuits... wtf fuckers they're super yummy and the logo is sweet actually so fuck off.

what onehappy said, except with the additon "especially if they are brown (and preferably poor)"

not many articles about rehabilitation et al

There is a programm on channel one this week about this.
As for the op, I dont reckon it was him. This has been pretty much
covered here, but I reckon it was the crack fryed mother.

'cos brownies are better?

Dunno about that, i think the media love pulling down rich people and whites too. The media are a reflection of society (generally), they print what sells.

I dunno, I don't see them hounding people like Petricevic month after month after month.

Just because it sells doesnt mean it should be sold.

They reflect the worst elements of the human psyche (what psychoanalysis calls the shadow) and in reflecting those aspects, they make them stronger. Thanks to the media the things we fear, the threats we perceive in our environment, to ourselves and our society, bear precious little relationship to reality.

Most of the media are utterly devoid of social responsibility, or intelligent reflection about what they are doing. They are dumb and they are making society dumb. Their only mission is to make money. For themselves. They have no other real purpose. They are an utter disservice to society.

unless its about an all black signing a backpack full of fake explosives

Umm.. basically because, even if he didn't actually do it, he is significantly culpable for being negligent and obstructive and silent on it during the investigations.

He and Macsyna (sp?) both failed to provide the necessities of life for their children. That alone should be a serious crime - as bad as rape/murder imo when deaths occur.

But... the media do seem to have not much to talk about quite often. Sometimes it feels like Paul Holmes is the editor of newspapers..

Maybe they can destroy him like they did Bailey Kurariki then they get lots of easy articles for years huh! It's an investment

I'm with LeKnight - it was that silly bint mother of theirs. She has since fled the country and her ex-bf never managed to record the convo where she admitted killing them. Sigh. On we go.

never, not our wonderful gutter press

*my thoughts exactly*

could it be that Petricevic is facing charges and much of what they'd like to print is prejudicial?

but yet I have read plenty about him and Bangerter and Byers and little or nothing of Kahui until now



free market and all that

Like it or not the kahui case was sensational and the public has an interest in the matter particularly as now he proposes living with other children in his care - will there be a repeat of what went before? who will point the finger? you against the media? the police? CYFS? the justice system? or those responsible for their own actions?

Too many random attacks and murders of innocent parties often in their own homes or cars or shops by villains with long records released into the community and/or absconding from parole - that is the cause of people's fears my friend and not the media reportiong on it

Bailey Kurariki brings his own trouble on himself. He has been dealt leniently and continues to be because of his age and shows little inclination for reform from what I read of his behaviour as listed by court charges, which the media duly report on. What would you expect them to do?

The fact that he is brown is neither here nor there. His victim was Chinese. So what? Was it a racist crime? Plenty of others reported on in the media are white. Most of the white collar crims are. Their victims fall across all categories.

It's called empathy. If we didn't want to see the Kahuis antagonised, then that would be like saying "we don't care about what happened to those babies". The fact that so many people want to see the Kahui's punished is a good sign because it indicates that we still care about each other as a society.

we care about the innocent anyway; and what could be more innocent than defenceless, totally reliant infants

I thought his wife did it?

The police charged him as they thought it most likely to convict i guess. Whether that was from evidence or him being male im not sure.

Right, so media has taken the place of going down to the local to talk about other people in the village. Is it simply filling a need that has always been there but is more difficult with the expanded societies we live in now?

Its may ultimately be a disservice but how do you limit it? I certain find all the celebrity/ fear mongering crap shit in the herald offencive but ultimately i recognise that news papers wouldnt print it if people didnt read it. Is it TVs fault? The internet? or peoples morbid curiosity in details?

Maybe its because people are sick of hearing about world issues. I certainly know people who dont watch the news but do read shitty entertainment websites.

we hear about international issues?

fuck me what time and channel - cause thats exactly what is missing in our media...

Similar to the information (albeit secondary) that I heard... That there was more evidence against the mother but it's much easier to convince a jury that a man has committed domestic abuse than a woman. So they went for the father because at the end of the day he was at least guilty of negligence that resulted in their deaths.

Yeah man. Get Sky and watch Fox news. That'll sort you.

and without a conviction the state says he is innocent so one would think/hope media and the public would respect this decision (yeah right) allow them to get on with their lives....

when is the herald going to send a reporter to tag a certain letterbox?

he's hardly lily white

there may have been no conviction but there were two murders of children under his joint care for which there hasn't been a conviction due to his and his partner's and others' wall of silence

there are no other suspects so it is reasonable to suspect him of at least criminal negligence and to have an interest in developments such as this - after all he has been closely monitored by crown agencies such as CYFS, who no doubt, made this disclosure to the media

no not lily white at all (who is?) - and the purpose of these witch hunts helps who?

certainly not the community the media claims to serve, not the legal system, not the welfare system.... not the dead twins

so when was the last time you were caught up in a double infanticide bob_d?

oh its been a while.... but I've never been convicted of a double infanticide

going back to an earlier entry... how many times has Petricevic got away with scamming the public?

You mean the one that he was found not guilty of?

got away with? he's in the dock for his latest "scam" anyway

more fool the public for following him, you might say, after Euro National and his past performance playing the intangible money market - and for what? a lousy one or two percent?

no, I mean an investigation that was hampered by a family refusing to assist the police with their enquiries, as we all know

the fact that the police, under immense presssure, went ahead with a trial based on weak evidence is testament to the revulsion we all feel about the crime and the demand for justice for the victims

it is very gratifying to know whilst people like him were running free around our country taking so much from so many that those who report on business etc were on the case announcing how bad these companies investments were, thus saving so many from financial ruin

they also saved us from the GFC...

nah fuck that

Actually some were but there is the law of libel too you know

Advisers in the pay had their part to play willing lambs theirs

I don't think you quite understand what empathy means. Which would explain a few things actually.

as it turns out, I do understand what empathy means. think harder.

There's just far far too much of it, too many nothing stories, too many outright stupid stories and what good stories exist get hammered to hell from every possible angle the media can find.

My thoughts too. Obviously a younger and more easily bossed around boy, Chris was.

Wasn't there evidence such as cell phone records indicating that the mother was in the vicinity of the babies when she had said in her aliby that she was in like the other side of Auckland at the time? Or something to that effect.

The father looked genuinly gutted, the mother was filmed down at the pub with her woodies and pumpin her hard earned benefit cash into those evil
upright machines that convince stupid people they will get more money back.
"Im just here forgetting my worries ya know"

Burn, burn, burn and burn some more.




Brutal.

so should the media be hounding the mother cause some say on biggie she's guilty... or are they right in hassling the one thats still within reach of a taxi chit?

either way the herald et al have no interest in guilt only percieved guilt

bobd, there were two people most likely to have done the dirty deed - that's a 50-50 even odds on guilt

good enough I say for the media interest to stay active in this country if one has fled the coop

Entire thread: tl;dr... however...



Just to be obtuse, I'm going to go with....

Yes!

If somebody on biggie is making wild, baseless allegations about [insert (whateverthefuckyourtalkingabout)], we should take them very seriously. I propose flooding newspapers with letters to the editor, bemoaning the state of the nation. Newsboy can do some prank outside the beehive about it. John Hawkesby can host a telethon to raise money about the issue. We can get Dave Dobbyn to do an interview in Womans day about it, and of course Taria Turia will be moaning about Maori not getting their piece of the pie, so they can have a hikoi from Takapuna to Timaru if they're free. Afterwards we can all go to shadows and get jugs of export served to us by the topp twins and have a sausage sizzle in albert park if there is time. Basically, this is something the entire nation can be a part of.

Yup. Thats whatever you were talking about for you.

and a foyne paddy's day to you too begorrah me ol' china

I dunno, I'd prefer to see stories about how we as a community, as a society and as a nation can and will take on the root causes of child abuse and stamp it out as best we can

still at least one potentially guilty person can't sleep, eh, justice is ours

I'm only being silly, bob d.
Except about the sausage sizzle.
When I come to power, I'm going to invite the whole nation to albert park for a sausage sizzle.

Write that down.

the root causes? what be these?

poor people NR... time the govt got serious and put them all down

bullshit, poor in spirit only

^ ^ lol, i'm really not sure how to interpret that post ^ ^

it means stop giving poor people a bad name

I blame the drink and drug culture

Social inequality is a factor that exascerbates many social problems such as crime, poor health, low educational outcomes, etc. Which is not to say that it is a root cause of all social problems, or that other factors are not at play. It is only to say that there is plenty of evidence that it is one factor, and that it needs to be a part of the explanation.

The negative consequences of inequality are such that inequality can be a more serious issue than absolute wealth. The poor in a relatively unequal society can be "worse off" than the poor in a relatively equal society, even when those in the unequal society are are better off absolutely than those in the less unequal society. There is a lot of research evidence for this.

There is evidence from game theory that people are less likely to share in a context where people are unequal. This might be one of the psycho/social mechanisms behind the outcome, and it could result in differences being exaggerated once they emerge.

Allowing the gap between rich and poor to grow is destructive to the wellbeing of society.

Onehappy owns this thread

That may be true in general onehappy but in the specifics of this case I think you would have trouble explaining such abuse by reason of socio economic circumstance. Personal responsibility has to come into it and social norms acros the board are against abuse of children. And by the way abuse of kids is not just limited to the poorer members of society.

abuse isn't confined to the poor - reporting on abuse generally is

socio economic situation does not excuse personal behaviour people have to take responsibilty for their actions... but by to ignore the conditions some find themselves is to never be able to address the issue as a society - we'll always be focusing on individual cases which will not reduce the incidents of abuse in this country

Remember we were discussing the specifics of this case, not crime in general , which I do not agree has socio economic circumstance as a cause.

in that case we have is two dead childen and no conviction... end of the facts... beginning of the stories

Correct. And endless threads on forum boards.

If the world relied solely on scientifically or legally proven information we would be a poorer world for it. It would pretty much kill the green/alternative health/animal welfare/ movements anyway.

It would also make it extremely difficult for Cyps, Winz and many other social welfare programs to work.

The root cause being the decisions taken by people to commit acts of child abuse.

Stop assigning causative powers to abstractions and broader issues.

Agree entirely, but as a TRUE socialist I hate the next step liberals usually take, which is to somehow say that people from abusive homes, poor homes, lower socio-economic states deserve less blame.

A true leftist hopes for an equal society, but at the same time believes that all people are responsible for their actions. It's only the filthy liberal left - who would have rolled over and let Hitler fuck them in the arse as long as they could keep sipping their chardonnay - that ignore that central tenet of Marxism.

it not just the media that have it in for this family....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10633575

next up Family First to take on the problem of NZ witches and NZ law to be re-written by a bunch of 'sensible' people