Should all NZ have equal voting rights?

Should all New Zealanders have equal voting rights? or should Maori have have extra voting rights? (as it is now with Reserved maori seats in parliament & unelected Maori voting rights on council)....

equal generally but pragmatically there should be some adjustment. We dont let under 18s vote or people in prison.

Interesting comment. Why shouldn't the young people (under 1 have a vote to say what they want the future to be?

Representation. Maori have been grossly under-represented in Govt historically for various reasons. This has lessened with the introduction of MMP, and hopefully these reserved seats will not be necessary in the years ahead. They have served a purpose though.

As for all Kiwis having equal voting rights. The age thing... I guess you have to draw a line somewhere. You wouldn't let a 5 year old vote because they wouldn't really know/care enough about the process. The same could be said for <18's. I don't know many people who voted straight off the bat at 18. Prisoners gave up their rights when they were convicted of their crimes so see no issue with them losing their voting rights.

Last time I check maori and non-maori had equal voting rights.

They all got 2 votes (one for their electorate, and one that determined the makeup of Parliament) just like everybody else....

But yet they haven't been represented in Parliament (for various reasons) and as a result their voice hasn't really been heard. In the past mind, it's all changing now. And yes one of those reasons is that they haven't voted, but is it really good enough to just say "ah fuck it, if they want representation they can get it"? Because that kind of was the case in the past, and it's only been since they had representation that things have started looking better for maori as a whole.

Lack of life experience with which to make informed choices?

Life experience hs a small part of voting..I mean what kids would vote? The sensible ones most teenagers woukdnt give a flying fuck but there are some smart cookies out there and I think they would bring a sensible vote better than the raving lunatics on talkback and the like

If you ask me people should need to pass an exam to be able to vote

And what will be included in that exam?

Re-read first post:
" (as it is now with Reserved maori seats in parliament & unelected Maori voting rights on council)...."

Really wanting to keep it on this topic please:

Should all New Zealanders have equal voting rights? or should Maori have have extra voting rights? (as it is now with Reserved maori seats in parliament & unelected Maori voting rights on council)....

So this thread is about whether there should be Maori seats in parliament?

You know, anything that involves critical analysis

I actually believe this heh.

Copy and paste:

Separate Maori electorates date back to 1867, at a time when the only people who had a vote in New Zealand were men who owned property. Since most Maori property was communally owned, virtually no Maori men got a vote. So the Maori electorates were created, initially for just five years, so that all Maori men got a vote – indeed, Maori men were the first New Zealanders to enjoy a universal suffrage.

But of course, now every adult, regardless of whether they own property or not, and regardless of gender, enjoys the vote. The Royal Commission on the Electoral System recommended as long ago as the ‘eighties that the Maori electorates should be scrapped if New Zealand adopted the MMP electoral system.

The separate Maori electorates have long since ceased to serve any useful purpose – the number of Maori in Parliament substantially exceeds the number of Maori electorates, proving that separate Maori electorates are simply not needed to ensure that Maori are elected to Parliament.

lol don brashaments :>

once again, and this time slowly for the retarded kid...

maori don't have extra voting rights. All eligible NZers get 2 votes (one for their electorate, and one that determines the makeup of Parliament). These votes count the same no matter who you are.

I've always thought the voting system should be changed where you have to answer multichoice questions on specific policies, and then you are assigned a party based on the majority of your leanings.

Democracy with Media is a joke, whoever saturates more wins, whoever looks better wins, whoever has the best slogan wins.

Rarely do people actually bother voting on policy, which is what people should be voting for.

Ok, so it seems this is the topic you want to talk about in this thread (and not some mumbo-jumbo about Maori getting more votes)

What do you think OP? If you think they should be scrapped, why do you think this...?

Interesting idea Do you have any way to get around:
a) Multiple parties that have very similar policies
b) Parties picking policies they think will be the most likely to win, then changing their strategy when in power?

a) You get them to word it how they want, within reason, it would need to be vetted of course.
b) this already happens? 2008 - National will not raise GST if elected. 2010 - GST raised by 2.5%. The credibility of the party if they went back on everything would get them thrown out I imagine.


Say you get close to a 50/50 (say 60/40) split between 2 parties, they then get the option to choose which party suits them best.

Obviously it needs to be vetted and agreed upon by the parties involved, but I think it would lead to a better democracy FOR the people, rather than the hodge podge system of most politics now.

I was going to launch a website to do this (recommend parties), but alas I didnt have the time, and some parties don't have their policies displayed or they are extremely vague (labour and national are both awful, truly awful.)

I quite like this.

I would word differently so voter knows who they are also voting for when they choose questions.


Question 46)

What would you like to see happen to the reserve Maori seats?

1) No change- Vote Labour
2) No change- vote Maori Party
3) Get rid of them- Vote Act
4) Get rid of them- Vote national
5) No decision/unsure- Vote United Future

I wouldn't.

Otherwise you run into the same problem, people over policy.

Is that even legal?

edit: oh, and yeah I really like the idea too.. interesting.

young people shouldn't be allowed to vote

nor darkies

happy now KGB

I voted when I was 18, who doesn't? Its exciting to have a voice for the first time.

Im confused about this thread, what is it about? Is the OP referring to the referendum on the way we vote?

Act party youth wing sounding board

Thread misses the most significant point IMO.

The really big issue with the elections is the huge numbers of young people not enrolled to vote. A record number from recollection, and the govt agency responsible dont have research funds to even understand what the problem is so it can be addressed.

In our democracy it is acceptable to have a huge sector of the population, a generational group who are being fucked over more than any other, kept in the dark even about basic things they could do to address their collective future.

pretty obvious why the youth aren't interested imo

look at their choices - old people with old people solutions to yesterdays problems with little interest in the future who all enjoy a laugh at youths expense

let them vote younger and teach civics at school -ie educate our people to be able to at the very least understand how government (local and national) is run and their obligations and choices as citizens

true true not bad in a way they havent got the funds to farm it out to a market research company

The OP wants those bloody maaris to piss off.

Also, if you pay attention to what he wrote in the OP, he clearly doesn't understand either our electoral system or the council Maori panel.

that is a common failing from act and its supporters Kris

This, and what OH said. The common arguments against youth voting (don't understand the issues etc) also apply to a huge number of adults too, so are moot.

Agreed. It frustrates me greatly that even simple public policy, law etc isn't taught in high school. Both are fundamental to how you live your life.

Fixed.

Good to see Bob is on-board

we should hook up

imagine the children

even better

think of the sex

I thought he was a child

I'm legal

Daaamn.

Get in there bob.

Excellent response

but the wrong one... not sure if I am so interested now he's taken to long pants

hahah!

So biggie seems to think it's okay to take the vote away from the prison population?

biggie might, I don't

Taking away? They don't have it now...

"In 1893, after a long and dramatic struggle, the right to vote was granted to all adult women. By that time it was widely accepted that the franchise was a right of citizenship, and that therefore all adult citizens should be able to take part in elections (with some exceptions, such as prison inmates and the mentally ill)."

http://www.elections.org.nz/study/education-centre/history/right-to-vote.html

Unless you're talking about the concept on whole, in which case, personally, not really, no. If you have done a crime and been convicted for it then you are still in the process of paying back your debt to society, and until that is remedied you continue to owe society, and shouldn't have the right to make take part in activities which govern that society.

that's cos they'd vote Labour, what with their anti 3 strikes policy and that

oh and kiddie fiddlers go in for long stretch

I don't have an ethical issue with it, particulary because their right to vote is only suspended while they are incarcerated.

I dunno, those on home-D.. are they allowed out to vote I wonder?

Oh and do I have a problem if they aren't.. .

Nope. You do the crime, you do the time

I believe depending on the nature of the crime prisoners should not be barred from voting - nothing to do with who they might vote for NR you prat

Applying similar logic would mean denying migrants voting rights until they had contributed enough to NZ society. What would that entail: two election cycles? Or a set amount of tax paid? Why should they have any say before then?

oh so you believe then that some prisoners should do?

it gets better, you've moved forward

... and rightward?

I don't think thats a valid inference of logic based on TtheHF's statement. Lets not consider for a second that peoples 'right to vote' should be proportional to the amount of tax paid, thats just a slippery slope.

Although I do not know if 'debt' itself is great analogy for convictions. More like consequences of action.

Interesting though how Ron equates monetary value to moral right/wrong though innit? Bloody right wingers.

On a side note TinTin is apparently getting great reviews??

Many people are in jail for actions which are not necessarily morally wrong, but are illegal.

So far as people's right to vote being proportional to the amount of tax paid being a slippery slope, I agree.

Indeed then corporate bankers and stockmarket investors wouldn't have any say !

Heje wtf/! No, as theyve passed the requiements to become ta citizen, sp have full rights. Prisoners have failed afte having been (norb into being) citizens. Nothing alike, but funny concept; good man ^_^

heh better said than I. But I do believe that crime incurs a sicetial debt. ^_^

*societal ^_^

Thing is, you don't have to be a citizen to vote here, only a permanent resident. Of people granted permanent residency in the past decade about 25% have left NZ.

And that would be a bad thing how?