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[quote]
don't worry- this isn't a thead for vads to come and talk about how he'd like a 14 year old anorexic girlfriend.


last night, i went to watch the Dio High School Junior play. they put on a production (which was very good, i might add. a cast of 134 teeange girls...) of "catwalk"- the story of two opposing fashion houses in a tradional tale of betrayal and good vs evil etc.

NOW, being that the show is about 'fashion' and 'models' etc, the entire cast were dressed in, dare i say it, "sexy" outfits- and were all wearing large amounts of stylised stage makeup. there is a fashion show at the start of the play which puts the 'models' on parade just like any other fashion show would... so they come come out with their best strut, attitude and intensity.

personally i found it a little unsettling to watch 13 and 14 year old girls (over 100 of them, lets not forget) come out and "strut their stuff" on a cat walk for all to glare at... a friend of mine was assistant director, and she assured me that it was as "PG" as they could make it, but there were several other elements in the show that added to the rawness of it.

my questions, then, are thus...

are we over sexualising our younger generation?

or

is it OK to encourage self expression through sex for girls (or any kids) of this age (all were 13 & 14)?

my main problem with it is not necessarily that these girls want to express themselves sexually- as i'm sure many were doing it when i was that age... it's mainly that as a man in today's society you're taught to naturally to steer away from the sexualisation of young girls- but if they're up there doing it to themselves it becomes somewhat difficult to avoid?

i'm not going to lie to you there were 2 or 3 out of the 134 cast members that were absolutely stunning. 5'10"+, thin, full figures, striking features... fashion models in the waiting (in fact 2 already have agents)...

so when does society deem it "ok" to heat up the image of young teenage girls? and are we on a steady downward slope that will soon make it acceptable to go scoping for potential partners at your local intermediate?

i, for one, hope not.

Confused

gc.
[quote]
they're actually doing it to kids now, have you seen the uproar about that? its disgusting.

when i was 13 i wore t shirts and track pants. and i had a bloody good time.

little girls are all whores these days, and i blame britney spears.
[quote]
I remember the marykateandashley 'tween' range controversy a few years ago - that was supposed to be too 'adult' at the time for 9-12 year olds.
[quote]
Again, I blame Supre.

Or this just a symptom?? Confused
[quote]
Ooooh, was Ridgey's daughter involved?

Razz
[quote]
i actually think hip hop coming in to mainstream and 'pop' culture is more to blame than anyone else.

missy elliot, beyonce, pussycat dolls, black eyed peas etc... all promote HIGHLY sexual and suggestive images to kids as young as 8 or 10. no wonder these girls think it's all good to come out and shake their junk for all to see?

when i was last in wellington i had this cute girl pull up next to me at a bar... and when we got talking i (naturally) asked her what she did... she replied with "i'm at school". i humoured her for about 2 minutes before i wandered off with a chuckle.

Neutral

gc.
[quote]
When I was in Form 3 I was in a school play of the same nature. I was one of the models and we had to wear mini dresses, heels, full-on make up...for one of the "walks" we had to wear mini skirts and bikini tops with a cowboy hat...

Anyways I wasn't exactly comfortable in my body then but the message I got was "you should be" and got praised for wearing such things and well, the boys at school loved it.

It's sad I think, society definitely triggers a young girl's mind into thinking that that's what she needs to wear or the way she needs to behave to get attention. I know at that age you are definitely thinking about the opposite sex and what not but 13 & 14 is a lil young to be teaching girls that being sexually attractive is so important and to be focused on.

But it's reality - look at the video clips out there the celebrities that girls look up to. The world's not exactly full of good examples.
[quote]
Supamaorifulla said:
i actually think hip hop coming in to mainstream and 'pop' culture is more to blame than anyone else.

missy elliot, beyonce, pussycat dolls, black eyed peas etc... all promote HIGHLY sexual and suggestive images to kids as young as 8 or 10. no wonder these girls think it's all good to come out and shake their junk for all to see?


I've often said to my partner that when we have kids they will know exactly how to have sex by the time they are 10 due to music videos and the direction they are heading.

But hey, as a young man at this stage, I don't mind these video's on mute.

Froggy
[quote]
Supamaorifulla said:
i actually think hip hop coming in to mainstream and 'pop' culture is more to blame than anyone else.


What I would like to know is who exactly is driving this? I mean, are these images the result of what young girls actually 'want'?

If girls didnt respond to the images in the first place then presumably music video creators would do something else.

Sure, there must be some kind of reciprocal connection between the two, but where is this whole 'lets sexualise our kids' movement coming from?

Confused
[quote]
young girls just want to be like the older cooler girls and if that means dressing like a skank, then ok, they will do that.
[quote]
Coldsnap said:
Supamaorifulla said:
i actually think hip hop coming in to mainstream and 'pop' culture is more to blame than anyone else.


What I would like to know is who exactly is driving this? I mean, are these images the result of what young girls actually 'want'?

If girls didnt respond to the images in the first place then presumably music video creators would do something else.

Sure, there must be some kind of reciprocal connection between the two, but where is this whole 'lets sexualise our kids' movement coming from?

Confused


I dont think these videos are specifically targetted at younger girls. I think theyre targetted at the male market, and a slightly older one at that. I think the younger girls getting into them, and the effect it is having on them is a by-product. Like alcohol - its for 18+, but younger groups are getting into it.
[quote]
Good thread SMF.

I'm personally rather disturbed by the over-sexualisation of young people...

Buggered if I know what can be done to counter it though Neutral


Supamaorifulla said:

when i was last in wellington i had this cute girl pull up next to me at a bar... and when we got talking i (naturally) asked her what she did... she replied with "i'm at school". i humoured her for about 2 minutes before i wandered off with a chuckle.

Neutral

gc.


In fairness, I had flatmates and friends that refered to uni and tech as 'school'

Having said that though when I was working in hospo we knew when the school holidays were by the attitude and apparent age of large groups of _young_ladies_ in the bar Neutral
[quote]
I remeber wanting to grow up really fast at that age - I think the media portrays sexuality or sexualised women as popular with men and women - and every little girl wants to be accepted and fit in...

but yeah - I find it pretty weird. Like seeing 8 year olds in bikini's at the beach - WHY??
[quote]
chaos_theory said:
I dont think these videos are specifically targetted at younger girls. I think theyre targetted at the male market, and a slightly older one at that. I think the younger girls getting into them, and the effect it is having on them is a by-product. Like alcohol - its for 18+, but younger groups are getting into it.



alcohol is a bad example because I'm sure most people have at least on story about sneaking off with some wine/liquor/beer from their parents stash at like 13 to go and get horribly drunk

but things like media portrayal of the female form is pretty distressing, have you ever noticed how many blatant tittie shots there are? I wouldn't expect guys to register any problem with it unless they had a daughter themselves that was being exposed to it and emulating herself through her fashion and attitudes. It doesn't matter whether or not women are necessarily into it or not because men appreciate it and every woman wants to be adored. If this is how men react to these images then that's how women need to behave to get the same.
[quote]
snowflake said:
chaos_theory said:
I dont think these videos are specifically targetted at younger girls. I think theyre targetted at the male market, and a slightly older one at that. I think the younger girls getting into them, and the effect it is having on them is a by-product. Like alcohol - its for 18+, but younger groups are getting into it.



alcohol is a bad example because I'm sure most people have at least on story about sneaking off with some wine/liquor/beer from their parents stash at like 13 to go and get horribly drunk


Thats exactly what Im saying the problem is. Alcohol, like sexualisation, is not a bad thing when its amongst the older generation, but both are being picked up by younger and younger people and that is the negative by-product of it being ok amongst the elders Wink
[quote]
One of my old flatmates never understood why women on TV are so thin, and girls in general are so big.

He thought I was overweight.

This was primarily because of the images portrayed in the media of how women should look - I mean hell I'm even half considering plastic surgery at the moment.

I guess it all depends on the child and family and upbringing on how they view what is portrayed in the media, I only hope that my children have a balanced view and aren't concerned with growing old before their time.

Let kids stay as kids... a bit unrealistic tho Sad
[quote]
RogueOne said:
In fairness, I had flatmates and friends that refered to uni and tech as 'school'


oh, me too- but this lass was definitely at high school. i confirmed before passing judgement. heh...

coldsnap said:

Sure, there must be some kind of reciprocal connection between the two, but where is this whole 'lets sexualise our kids' movement coming from?


i think it is what the young girls want. and oddly, i like to see young people express themselves in pretty much whatever way they'd like. but you have to wonder if by leading these girls down this path, that eventually some young hot things are going to be poaching middle aged cradle snatchers to make themselves feel accepted.

and who will we blame? probably the mid life crisis motherfucker in the porsche convertable... but will it really be his fault?

Confused

gc.
[quote]
Im going to pull a Keith Richards and pull my kids away from the city to raise them Cool
[quote]
Smf did you have a family member in the play or did you just go along for a perve? Razz
[quote]
styln said:
Smf did you have a family member in the play or did you just go along for a perve?


haha... a girl i went to acting school with was the assistant director, and she asked me and another friend to come along and check it out.

Smile

gc.
[quote]
elro said:
One of my old flatmates never understood why women on TV are so thin, and girls in general are so big.

He thought I was overweight.


Its funny how many guys out there that base their perceptions on the media..

(Their the ones that need to get out more Wink)
[quote]
Hmmm, when I was very little, and had not yet been exposed to the semi-pornographic music video's and such that todays youth are bombarded with, I still played "dress-up" and loved to put on my Mum's bright red lipstick and prance around like a grown-up.

Worse, as a 2 year old, I used to strip all my clothes off in front of my family while dancing to disco music.

Playing dressup (not the stripping part) is part and parcel of growing up, playing Mums and Dads, boys wearing their Mum's nightie is normal too innit? I think that in the situation of this play, these girls are not being over-sexualised, rather, they are playing out a role...

My 15 year old daughter by the way, constantly complains about how women are objectified in many music video's. She thinks Beyonce dances like a chicken, and is in no hurry to imitate her Neutral
[quote]
Supamaorifulla said:
missy elliot, beyonce, pussycat dolls, black eyed peas etc....

I agree with your other calls but not Missy Mad Missy is awesome and i think her music videos are not sexualised at all, infact i think they are far more intelligent than the rest of your list... i think she sends a good image to girls, basically you can be the queen of hip hop without looking like a barbie and taking all your clothes off Wink
[quote]
i do have 2 little sisters though- which is probably why i get so antsy about the topic of young girls and sex. it always makes me uncomfortable...

Neutral

gc.
[quote]
skanky_yankee said:
i think she sends a good image to girls, basically you can be the queen of hip hop without looking like a barbie and taking all your clothes off


you can still promote sex without removing your clothes. suggestive lyrics and dance moves are probably worse than showing a bit of skin.

"if ya got a big dick, lemme search ya, to find out how hard i gotta work ya"

Neutral

gc.
[quote]
skanky_yankee said:
Supamaorifulla said:
missy elliot, beyonce, pussycat dolls, black eyed peas etc....

I agree with your other calls but not Missy Mad Missy is awesome and i think her music videos are not sexualised at all, infact i think they are far more intelligent than the rest of your list... i think she sends a good image to girls, basically you can be the queen of hip hop without looking like a barbie and taking all your clothes off Wink


Yeah, she just has awesomely explicit lyrics Pink Winky
[quote]
Supamaorifulla said:
styln said:
Smf did you have a family member in the play or did you just go along for a perve?


haha... a girl i went to acting school with was the assistant director, and she asked me and another friend to come along and check it out.

Smile

gc.


That is a perfectly good reason to go. Is the assistant director hot?
[quote]
RogueOne said:
Yeah, she just has awesomely explicit lyrics


exactly... have you actually listened to much missy, skankee_yankee? explicit to say the least. the only reason she doesn't show skin is because she used to be an enormous fatty... but since sorting that problem out, she's becoming increasingly more willing to show off her bod.

Smile

gc.
[quote]
styln said:
That is a perfectly good reason to go. Is the assistant director hot?


i guess so... how come? she's just a mate!

Wink

gc.
[quote]
I was asking because I am a sucker for a hot woman even if she is a platonic mate and I figureed that she must have been hot.
[quote]
styln said:
I was asking because I am a sucker for a hot woman even if she is a platonic mate and I figureed that she must have been hot.


i have lots of hot chick friends. this is both good and bad.

Smile

gc.
[quote]
Meh. If I had daughters of the age you are describing i would be more worried about said pussycat dolls, and other blatently sexual pop crap than missy.

And at 14, if you think girls aren't aware of the socially concieved importance of a large phallus than you are mistaken. Wink
[quote]
chaos_theory said:
Thats exactly what Im saying the problem is. Alcohol, like sexualisation, is not a bad thing when its amongst the older generation, but both are being picked up by younger and younger people and that is the negative by-product of it being ok amongst the elders Wink


sexualisation is okay though

we need to procreate in order to survive

the issue lies with parents properly guiding their children in how to appropriately deal with those responsibilities they will have to face as an adult

sex is much the same as alcohol as is drugs, good education is important so you can make informed decisions
[quote]
I have a 3 year old girl and I am quietly worried about wtf is going to be portrayed in the media and on music videos/television etc by the time she is 13-14.. I am like most of the other girls on here when I was 14 I wasn't strutting around I was more interested in riding horses and my friends ... fuck Neutral
[quote]
skanky_yankee said:
Meh. If I had daughters of the age you are describing i would be more worried about said pussycat dolls, and other blatently sexual pop crap than missy.

And at 14, if you think girls aren't aware of the socially concieved importance of a large phallus than you are mistaken.


you obviously haven't listened to enough missy elliot then. also, what the FUCK does a 14 year old girl need with a big cock?

nothing, unless she's been a slut since she was 12!

Neutral

gc.
[quote]
skanky_yankee said:
Meh. If I had daughters of the age you are describing i would be more worried about said pussycat dolls, and other blatently sexual pop crap than missy.

And at 14, if you think girls aren't aware of the socially concieved importance of a large phallus than you are mistaken. Wink


or how important it is to be maintaining your cunt for some tidy eating?

Missy Elliot said:
before you come over i need to shave my cha cha. you do or you dont or you will or wontcha. go downtown and eat it like a vulture.


Not what early teen girls need to be taught IMO

Neutral
[quote]
snowflake said:
chaos_theory said:
Thats exactly what Im saying the problem is. Alcohol, like sexualisation, is not a bad thing when its amongst the older generation, but both are being picked up by younger and younger people and that is the negative by-product of it being ok amongst the elders Wink


sexualisation is okay though

we need to procreate in order to survive

the issue lies with parents properly guiding their children in how to appropriately deal with those responsibilities they will have to face as an adult

sex is much the same as alcohol as is drugs, good education is important so you can make informed decisions


Are you saying sexualisation is ok for the younger generation?

As far as education and guidance goes, we see eye to eye Wink
[quote]
Supamaorifulla said:
RogueOne said:
Yeah, she just has awesomely explicit lyrics


exactly... have you actually listened to much missy, skankee_yankee? explicit to say the least. the only reason she doesn't show skin is because she used to be an enormous fatty... but since sorting that problem out, she's becoming increasingly more willing to show off her bod.

Smile

gc.

Hehe yes I have infact, I own three of her albums. yes i know her lyrics are explicit, and as you say she came out on top of all other female hiphop artists despite the fact that she didn't display a thin marketable figure. I respect her for this. I just find it odd that you are comparing her work to that of the pussycat dolls who's talent clearly lies in their PVC hot pants and fuck-me boots and little else.
But i see her sexualised lyrics as more of holding her own against all the other misogynistic, explicit lyrics coming from the male hiphop arena. She talks about a man going down on her... about fucking time!

Sorry, this is getting off topic Razz
I do agree with you in essence, while 13 and 14 can be a vulnerable age i think snowflake makes a valid point that education and teaching responsibility are most important. By this time girls and boys are aware of much more than we would like to imagine and many are already sexually active.
[quote]
skanky_yankee said:

Hehe yes I have infact, I own three of her albums. yes i know her lyrics are explicit, and as you say she came out on top of all other female hiphop artists despite the fact that she didn't display a thin marketable figure. I respect her for this. I just find it odd that you are comparing her work to that of the pussycat dolls who's talent clearly lies in their PVC hot pants and fuck-me boots and little else.
But i see her sexualised lyrics as more of holding her own against all the other misogynistic, explicit lyrics coming from the male hiphop arena. She talks about a man going down on her... about fucking time!


My quick 2c on that. I totally agree, you see it every time something attempts to break into mainstream consciousness. For example hip-hop, the early "gangster rappers" rapping about how theyve come from the ghetto to achieve success - this was called for. And it had to be as extreme as possible, in an attempt to bring the accepted norm closer to the middle of the spectrum. I object to it now, because that cause has been won, and now their just commercialising it and bastardising what their forebears achieved. You see the same with the gay scene - coming out as flamboyantly as possible to bring the accepted norm to the middle where gay people are just accepted as the same as everybody else and the term "gay" is not used as a description of somebody (I have gay friends who hate being introduced as "gay so-and-so", like it defined who they were). Missy is just doing the same for females in the hip-hop arena.
[quote]
so what? what does it matter where their motivation is coming from?

the end result is still the same. you can't say that missy is BETTER than the pussycat dolls just because she has more street cred or makes better music? her influence is just as bad.

i'm not saying that there is any way to actually change what they do, but we do need to examine which parts of this behaviour are being picked up by (and let's not forget this) CHILDREN.

Neutral

gc.
[quote]
Supamaorifulla said:
don't worry- this isn't a thead for vads to come and talk about how he'd like a 14 year old anorexic girlfriend.



Dude, the first thing I was going to reply with when I saw this thread title was exactly that. Remember shes' got to be an emo cutter too though!
[quote]
Supamaorifulla said:

when i was last in wellington i had this cute girl pull up next to me at a bar... and when we got talking i (naturally) asked her what she did... she replied with "i'm at school". i humoured her for about 2 minutes before i wandered off with a chuckle.


maate, if i had a choice to either "humour" her or that psychotic fat goth bitch who snarled at you for closing the window i know which one i would have picked Razz
[quote]
Danjah said:
maate, if i had a choice to either "humour" her or that psychotic fat goth bitch who snarled at you for closing the window i know which one i would have picked


haha... yeah that goth bitch was indeed a nutbag. wtf was she doing at a place like that anyhow?

Confused

gc.
[quote]
chaos_theory said:
Are you saying sexualisation is ok for the younger generation?

As far as education and guidance goes, we see eye to eye Wink



no I'm not saying sexualisation of the younger generation is okay

but at 13 and 14 they no longer qualify as children and at that age are beginning to develop in to adults who will eventually want to express their sexuality

sex is not a bad thing

but everybody will face pressures from friends, family, media and work colleagues in their lifetime and they will need to be taught how to deal with them as adults

I don't see anything being done to put a stop to the commercialisation of sex and wrapping people in cotton wool will have more of a detrimental effect imo because the younger generation won't learn proper coping strategies in how to deal with external influences
[quote]
All i can say is this:
If 14yo girls want to have sex, they might as well have sex with me!~

G-UNIT!!
[quote]
vadinho said:
All i can say is this:
If 14yo girls want to have sex, they might as well have sex with me!~

G-UNIT!!



Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
[quote]
Supamaorifulla said:
styln said:
Smf did you have a family member in the play or did you just go along for a perve?


haha... a girl i went to acting school with was the assistant director, and she asked me and another friend to come along and check it out.

Smile

gc.


funny you going to dio

I WENT TO SCHOOL THERE!!!

Froggy
[quote]
Life is sex, sex for life. Over sexualising or breaking down outdated pseudo christian prudish beleifs???
[quote]
Shyguy said:
Life is sex, sex for life. Over sexualising or breaking down outdated pseudo christian prudish beleifs???


ummmmm... yeah. sex with children is ace.

*thumbs up*

Rolling Eyes

gc.
[quote]
Sales. Its about sales. Simple. Sex sells.

They use the 'sex' aspect to sell to the males, and females, in turn get taught that this is what guys want.

Also - I would assume in the Missy Elliot videos - she may be 'fully' dressed - but the backing dancers may not be?
[quote]
IF MISSY ELLIOTT IS EVER NOT FULLY DRESSED IN A VIDEO, SOMEBODY BETTER WARN ME 'FO I WATCH THAT SHIT.

OR SOMEBODY GON' DIE.

VAD-D,
G-UNIT!
[quote]
Supamaorifulla said:
Shyguy said:
Life is sex, sex for life. Over sexualising or breaking down outdated pseudo christian prudish beleifs???


ummmmm... yeah. sex with children is ace.

*thumbs up*


Anything he can do to justify being a pervert, bro.
[quote]
Absolute said:

But it's reality - look at the video clips out there the celebrities that girls look up to. The world's not exactly full of good examples.


Yeah it is.

All girls should aspire to look like Paris Hilton, Christina Aguilera, Pussycat Dolls et al.

If all women aspired to that there would be heaps more hotties to go around for the boys.

Unfortunately, most women sit around bitching to their friends about how they "wish they looked like that" while the stuff another chocolate bar down their throats.


Froggy
[quote]
Mmmm chocolate.....
*sends for forklift to take me for a walk*
[quote]
I blame growth hormones in chicken feed.