Sampling in house music

A discussion about samples. Not kick-drums etc, but the use of partial or complete ideas of others.

I just checked out the new Milton Jackson album and it has an interesting track on it called 'Orbit 3'. It's nicely done and makes use of the same sample that was used on Pepe Bradock 'Deep Burnt' and Akabu 'Ride The Storm'. I only recently learned (here - Jeffp I think) that they both sampled a Freddie Hubbard tune from the 60s.

Anyway - when Moodymann uses a sample to create a track like 'Music People' or 'I Can't Kick..' , it is generally viewed differently to say when someone makes a more commercially slanted track? Really, what is the difference?

Is it that the artist tried to use it respectfully? Or that it makes up only a tiny percentage of the total of their finished release?

Some of my favourite records ever were sample based - but many you'd never pick.

- Mood II Swing 'Do It Your Way' (samples Montana 'A Dance Fantasy')
- Danny Tenaglia 'Elements' (samples *forgot* for the backing vocals/chant)

And then there were those like Phatts & Small 'Turn Around' which did a pretty good job of using bits of vocals from Toni Lee 'Reach Up' - discarding the chorus and using a verse line for theirs.

At what point does it go from being whoa to crass? And do you think too many artists put things out which, in all reality, are just re-edits/re-drums?

Why is Moodymann cool when he samples Chic and Freemasons not when they sample Tina Turner? Is it because Chic is cooler than Tina or because Moodymann is more old-school than the Freemasons? Is it the obscurity of the sample used which makes it cool?

Sounds like people might be a bit hypocritical sometimes.

the resulting tune determines if someone will subjectively determine if the track is cool or not and by degrees the artist

moodymann is super cool in my books because I rate his music

others not so cause I don't rate their music

its a music thing
a snob thing

filled to the brim with double standards based purely on what I deem is good or not

I have a weakness for silly samples or samples unsed in a dumb manner (stuff that makes me laugh and smile but not stroke my chin) - which is often 100% the opposite of what I should like by my own standards

In that case, you'd love Da Boo 'Spark That' (from Tenaglia's GU London) which samples Herbie Hancock 'Watermellon Man'.. An out of tune, out of synch and very humourous use of a sample.

will dig out my london CD... yeah right... will track it down online

here's a good daktari example - there is a rather avergae chicago styled house tune that samples the star wars cantana (?) band... the track is pretty much rubbish, yet I still dig it

I have a few mixes with it in, the mixes are to my flat too but hell I listen to them more than some IMO really amazing mixes, cause of that track

it makes no sesne but then we humans very rarely do

http://thru-you.com/

Fuck me.

Hey don't diss Revenge of the Catina one of my favrite tracks!!
Play it all the time.

This is my favrite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aINFvGESX8I

Moodymann can get away with sampling what he likes because he's got a worldwide fanbase of sycophantic, pot-smoking, students. He also feels he's got the higher ground as he's black and only blacks can sample real soul music.

That said, the cheeky farker sampled the especially white Bob James on a track which sounds as uncool as its title, "Spunky". The result is the Moody one's coolest piece of sampling, ever:

http://www.divshare.com/download/6626456-c53 (listen from around 1:30 and you'll soon here it)

And perhaps, that's what makes sampling credible. It's what you make of it and how left-field the sample is. Phats & Small ("Music For Pushchairs" and Armand Van Helden ("You Don't Even Know Me" both used a really obvious sample from Carrie Lucas "Dance With You".

Keeping it rare and clever goes a long way in the credibility battle. No one wants to hear another tired James Brown, Brother's Johnson, Chic, Commodores, Chaka Khan or Cheryl Lynn sample.

My favourite sample that I've recently discovered is Global Communication's "The Way" which samples Dexter Wansell's "The Sweetest Pain". You'd not normally think a signature Wansell soul composition could be turned into a 4am, deep house epic but Middleton was inspired enough to hear the sample and clever enough to stitch two elements of the song together.

Original tune:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PctLKcvYLGk

Sampled into:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNcHM5zJGt4

both of those links are awesome!

\m/ \m/

Sampling in music is all about how creative you are with the sample. People respect people who have unique vision, and creativity. They don't respect people for grabbing an old disco sample and looping it (tho they once did). Because it's all about originality. Moodymann is a legend because he was the king of sample manipulation and tweaking and forcing samples to do his bidding. DJ Sneak is a legend because he worked the fuck out of the sampler and filters and lfos etc.

Many other producers just sample something famous, put a kick and some beats over it, and then do something fairly lame to get a fairly generic result.

I've heard some very creative sampling going on from very commercial producers (Stuart Price, Arthur Baker, Daft Punk etc).

I think the Scandal is also on the money. People like to be tricked by music, so having something change context in a major way, or have it tap into their deep subconscious is an extremely important factor in the art of music sampling.

On a lighter note, the original Chi town house record to sample Cantina theme, was from Richie Hawtin's crew in the mid 90s. Very Relief sounding.

Hmmmm. I think Meco 'Star Wars And Other Galactic Funk' beat them to it. Awesome record... well, not really, but it was dance music and played by some chi town legends. Came out the same year as the movie in 1977.

(http://www.discogs.com/Meco-Star-Wars-And-Other-Galactic-Funk/release/110108}Meco)

This is a good point. I think they do, but they don't know they do. They act like they want to be bashed over the head with completely obviousness and clubs and many producers line up in file accordingly to ensure it.

I love the really subtle ones - the stuff like Global Communication 'The Way' - which I'd think even the original sampled artist would be quite proud to hear in many cases. Whereas much of the obvious I'm-the-next-Alan-Braxe stuff is way too obvious.

I wonder if it's also about the era. In the 90s there wasn't the avenue to easily make an edit/bootleg and get it out globally within days. Now that you can, it's ramped up this sort of sampling - in conjunction with the advent of cheap/free home-production software.

So, if Moodymann made 'Music People' or 'Shades Of Jae' for the first time now, would they be viewed as such great works?

That's the point tho Rob, once others start copying your art, it starts to become less about art, and more about craft. Moodymann will still be considered an visionary artist for many many years, because he was the first to do what he did. DJ Sneak, and Daft Punk, Tom M, Octave One etc will also go down in the books.

The French guys who came second wave? Well, some tracks maybe, but in general, there's not a lot of creativity, hence a lack of artistic merit. Sure, some of them are great at crafting and copying, but that's the same as some lady down at the Y' getting heavy on the paintbrush in a Modernism class...

hahaha brilliant line!