Rioting in London

Whole bunch of crazy shit going down since Saturday night.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14449675

Angry poor people burning shit and looting all over the city. I got kept awake by sirens last night which was kind of annoying. Not as annoying as having my house burnt down though.... All the action started in Tottenham on Saturday which is just around the corner, stemming from a protest over police involvement in a shooting. Its since moved to Hackney, Brixton, Croydon and Ealing. There are a lot of nervous looking Turkish people on my high street standing outside their businesses tonight.

Cop cars and government buildings yes, corporates yes, public transport and civic buildings maybe, private no. Hope to stick to these guidelines when my revolution happens.

I spit on your guidelines and throw them at a shop window

the people are angry

can anyone tell us why?

Even my local Sainsbury's has copped it apparently. :<

fuck sainsburys

get a kebab - seems they're 'open'

Hopefully by the time I wake up tomorrow Holborn will be razed and I wont have to go to work!

Black semi gangster (who had a hand gun in a sock in his car) got shot by cops, family didn't get told by police, organized march happens without significant incident, then scallies arrived in the evening and kicked off.

Have the plod said why they shot that dude yet?

Map here - http://goo.gl/NDehD - i expect a lot more dots to keep appearing
Live feed you can watch from NZ - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14449675

The brits are really into their revolutionary rantings aren't they? May Day and all those other riotious goings-on. The Irish too. Angry people.

Do you need a cuddle Ennajel?

if you cast your eye around the globe Just you'll notice rioting isn't the domain of just the anglos

over 2000 dead in syrian 'riots' and the state backlash is happening right now too

here's john with the weather...

But i've never seen a rich person riot!

I've never seen a poor person have a direct line to those in power

perhaps thats the problem

The price of RWC AB jerseys

'tis indeed the problem, but our world is filled with petty amateur psychologists whose thinking stretches no further than "cause of rioting = bad people"

yep I await the usual witch hunts and clampdowns now

meanwhile bankers walk the streets free

and the poor lash out but with no plan, no comprehension of what they are up against, and no appreciation of what needs to be done

The media who sell spectacle are the winners.

Libya's Colonel Gaddafi says he is planning airstrikes to support the rebels.

Is that an echo of lenin I hear?

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/download/what-itd.pdf

via twitter

Ummmmmmmm



Wow.



gc.

Reports of looters breaking into people's home now to steal shit.

Way to fight the system. Burn down your neighbours business and break into their homes.

they aren't fighting the system... they are rioting


reports of anarchist groups fighting fires in hackney, bless

Werd, good work those lot.

That's a lot of wait

Great read here: http://pennyred.blogspot.com/2011/08/panic-on-streets-of-london.html?spref=fb

Aslo, if you're on Twitter, check the #riotcleanup hastag, retore your faith in humainty.

wow, london's burning.

I like this take: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/context-london-riots?mobile-redirect=false

It's easy to write off these events as mindless bullshit (don't get me wrong, the vast majority of what we've seen is just that), but it's dangerous to ignore the underlying root causes. I fully expect events like this to become more common in the first world as the economy collapses again, the gap between rich and poor grows steadily wider, and those responsible for the global economic ruin carry on getting richer, business as usual.

Spot of bother.

"Yesterday, some hooligans knocked over a dustbin in Shaftsbury. Ooooo! The hooligans are loose, the hooligans are loose!"

Agreed Kris - I don't agree with that Penny Red article.



gc.

take the penny red add the guardian piece and add a dose of history and you can only see the problems being compounded even more

maggie thatcher knows how to divide a society and I bet dave cameron will be pulling out her play book now if not some time back

1980, St Pauls
"Bristol in the 1970s had seen an increase in unemployment and a deterioration of race relations as the right wing National Front party campaigned in local and national elections. St Pauls was blighted by the development of the M32 motorway, which split the area from the neighbouring district of Easton. Much of the housing in the area was in a poor state and local education services failed to cater adequately for the needs of either ethnic minorities or indeed many working class white communities.
Increasing use by the police of Sus laws to stop and search youths, predominantly those from the Afro-Caribbean community, raised tension. There was also an increase in racial harassment on local authority housing estates, which was largely ignored by the housing department."

1981, Brixton
"Brixton in South London was an area with serious social and economic problems. The whole United Kingdom was affected by a recession by 1981, but the local African-Caribbean community was suffering particularly high unemployment, poor housing, and a higher than average crime rate.
In the preceding months there had been growing unease between the police and the inhabitants of Lambeth. In January 1981 a house fire, a suspected racially-motivated arson, had killed a number of black youths in New Cross; the police investigation was criticised as inadequate. A parade for "Black People's day of Action" in March ended in confrontations with police in Fleet Street. At the beginning of April, the Metropolitan Police began Operation Swamp 81, a plainclothes operation to reduce crime. Officers were dispatched into Brixton, and within five days around 1,000 people were stopped and searched, and 100 arrested, through the heavy use of the 'sus law' (stop and search powers)."

1981 Toxteth
"The Merseyside police force had, at the time, a poor reputation within the black community for stopping and searching young black men in the area, under the "sus" laws, and the perceived heavy-handed arrest of Leroy Alphonse Cooper on Friday 3 July, watched by an angry crowd, led to a disturbance in which three policemen were injured. The existing tensions between police and people had already been noticed by local magistrate, Councillor and Chair of the Merseyside Police Committee, Margaret Simey, who was frequently critical of the tactics used by the then Chief Constable Kenneth Oxford. She said of the rioters "they would be apathetic fools ... if they didn't protest.", although was unprepared for the personal criticism that followed.
One main cause of poverty in the area was containerisation at the nearby Liverpool Docks, destroying thousands of waterfront-type jobs which had been associated with the city of Liverpool for generations. With the economy in recession, unemployment in Britain was at a 50-year high in 1981, and Toxteth had one of the highest unemployment rates in the country."

Just 3 major examples of similar previous events. Scary how similar in fact.

1517 London

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_May_Day

totally agree Kris

Still here, as is St Pauls work not cancelled

okay turns out them sirens last night were near us I see in the news.
Just up the road in Ealing.

Little fukkas ruining peoples lives in their own community. FAIL

Ealing was mentioned in the first post.

Argh, now Birmingham has followed suite.

Should have been a white riot when that dude who was shoved to the ground by a brutal cop died of a heart attack at that g whatever protest last year or 09.

The guy in Tottenham had it coming IF in fact he did pull a piece and exchange gunfire in armed resistance to his arrest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8630533/Riots-the-underclass-lashes-out.html

one of the best

The left totally owns all the best explanations for what's going on here. Let's hope it's a wake up call for this fucked up system and its war on society and on all of life.

This is changing so fast... it may not be interesting soon :
http://catchalooter.tumblr.com/

Yay,
rumours now that the trouble will be in many areas bordering where I live this afternoon/tonight.

Funny you should be quoting the telegraph then

Maybe some conservatives are facing reality for a change

there will be rioting on the streets before that ever happens

Only if it's in the Cotswolds bob d

I favour this analysis by courtesy of the independent by way of Gerald

High end looting....it's all the riot

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10744069

so easy to blame it on race

writer overlooks all the recent civil unrest with seemingly common themes (not race)

However, from adversity comes opportunity:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/fire-disaster-for-music-industry-2334734.html

"...The new Arctic Monkeys single, The Hellcat Spangled Shalalala, is among the releases which will be affected by the incident, with only a reduced number of vinyl copies available when it is out on Monday..."

BUY YOUR RARE VINYL NOW AS AN INVESTMENT!

We are the dregs
Of the western world
The steroid boys and video girls
We are the viral internet stars
And the anchor man
Can't stop crying

We are the dead with
The dreaded disease
The nuclear sons for you and me
Let's go all right all right let's go
What the fuck are you saying?

Now I don't wanna
Live here anymore
(Gonna watch it burn)
We are the best
And we'll fight to the death
There's nothing left
Worth fighting for
In the western world

This is the end of evolution's rise
The feeding frenzy of the uncivilized
The paparazzi parasites
And the vultures can't stop feeding

This is the face of our vanity
The tabloid death of humanity
Let's go all right all right let's go
What the fuck are you saying?

Now I don't wanna
Live here anymore
(Gonna watch it burn)
We take the best
And we spit out the rest
And always leave them
Wanting more.
In the western world

We are the dregs
Of the western world
The steroid boys and video girls
We are the viral internet stars
And the anchor man
Can't stop lying

We are the dead with
The dreaded disease
The nuclear sons for you and me
Let's go all right all right let's go
What the fuck are you saying?

Now I don't wanna
Live here anymore
(Gonna watch it burn)
We are the best and
We'll fight to the death
There's nothing left
Worth fighting for

Now I don't wanna
Live here anymore
(Gonna watch it burn)
We take the best and
We spit out the rest
And always leave them wanting more
In the western world
In the western world
In the western world

lyrics - pennywise

Corporate- and media-sponsored materialism, and corruption from the ruling class (read as "political class" if it makes you feel any better) is what this is about. Were the interests of those who run countries and their public/private school pals not at the core of modern democracy, this would not need to happen. But as the divide grows ever greater, and as those who cause the poverty and who conspire to keep themselves safe from the financial hardship they create get ever richer, reasons to take to the streets to stop them increase.

I just hope that our country sees the light and tries to remove from power those who act in their own interests as their English counterparts do before we ever need to. I also hope that my fellow Kiwis recognize that, when we demonize rioters and in focus on looters as opposed to the root causes of the need to riot, we are allowing ourselves to tacitly support the sick system that caused this in the first place...

This woman understands:

pffft TtheHF as if that would ever happen

its all about cracking down... harsher penalties... law and order

no (western styled democratic) government wants or intends to deal with the problems they have aided in creating - rather they will do their damnedest to aid the next collapse and then the one after that and the one after that and the one after that whilst claiming credit for any and all upturns in the market

our "system" has and continues to fail us - can it be saved, not without the will of the political elites and ruling classes - ie the very people the system benefits

blha blah blah plasma screen blah blah blah iproduct blah blah blah investment property balh blah blah fuck the poor blah blah blah

The right are incapable of explaining these events, which is not surprising seeing as they are the cause

That's ace. That's exactly how I feel about it. You go, old girl

A recent UK poll suggest most of the public see the riots as a consequence of either criminality or gang culture. Only eight percent cite impoverisment. So the British have stronger repressive measures to look forward to alongside their mounting austerity. Gee I wonder where that's going to lead them?

Ho ho ho

The only way anything will ever change is the complete, total, utter collapse of society as we know it. And even then, rich whitey ruling class will still be in power.

So disheartening that after only a few relatively prosperous decades people forget everything that has gone before...

http://nathanieltapley.com/2011/08/10/an-open-letter-to-david-camerons-parents/

Money talks and bullshit walks my friend.

Also

this is what I don't understand - has everyone forgot the student riots of last Dec already?

And various other anti austerity peaceful demonstrations and not so of the past year or two?

obviously

and bullshit walks the talk

Great piece.

Check out the graph on page 3...

http://www.voxeu.org/sites/default/files/file/DP8513.pdf

Here's a great example of your head-in-the-sand genre of clueless attempts at riot explanation - ignore the politics of the wider social context and put the whole thing down to "complex modern crowd behaviour" (ie twitter and text messages), the "law and order vacuum" and "the angry, the cynical, the deviants, the criminals."

No wonder our Professor is so perplexed

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10744271

So. All you lefty end-of-capitalist-times analysts please explain the Queen St riots and what it all led to.

You are better off looking at the overall picture, see the chart fishboy refers to in document posted.

Now. All you system-is-great chaps, please integrate this theory with evidence of 1) global environment collapse; 2) global social disorder; 3) global economic ruin

I see no evidence of that which you speak.

Yes. That's an event that compares in any way, shape or form, real or imagined, to the type of events we're discussing.


Christ.

the 1932 Queen St Riots or the 1984 one?

if its the 84 one the results were Liquor laws were tightened and police given more powers to search bags for alcohol

us kiwis and our booze eh

oh and wot Kris said

how do they compare?

1 young people
2 hot summer's day
3 reaction to police tactics
4 background of police aggression in the community at large (red squad '81 tour, tpu's) and hostility to it
5 wanton vandalism
6 post riot criticism of police tactics
7 post riot polemics

and no doubt many others

far too much conflation of these riots in this thread (by white honky mutha fuckas)







yep looks like the underclass alright

and now for something completely different

http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com/

NR - you forgot high unemployment, grey economic times etc etc - you know the underlying causes for social unrest not the more overt (but also contributing factors) ones you point out

but whilst there are comparisons there's no need to HAVE to make a NZ connection... our social dynamics are vastly different to the English... leave that action to the politicans to score brownie points over

Hahah, what world do you live in where a (undoubtedly rich as fuck and in no way fucked off) teaching assistant and (I was the fucking devil at this age) an eleven year old boy couldn't get involved in frenzied looting? And what possible use is pointing out one kid with rich parents other than an amateur attempt to try distract and distort perspectives?

It almost seems that you think we don't know that a bunch of cunts took advantage of a situation to have a laugh and trash some shit. We do. It is obvious. They ARE messing with innocent shopkeeper's lives, especially those few who don't have insurance. But that isn't the scariest part for us.

What we are all (or at least what I am) most concerned with, however, is that a man was unjustly killed by institutionally racist police to kick this off. That London police have had 333 people die in custody in the last decade. That corruption there is pervasive and sickening, and that the public services which have been cut in the form of austerity measures affect ONLY the poor. That unemployment and tax shortfalls exist ONLY because of the very rich, and that the welfare state exists purely because of the greed of the ruling class. And that the ruling class don't give a fuck as long as they get to further line their pockets and THEY get the sneakers and their TVs and their ipods. That THEY get their mortgages paid by the taxpayers and that their firms get government payouts and that they get a access to monies it would take ten thousand rioters rioting for a full year to steal. That THEY get theirs.

And that we Kiwis fail to realize is that worrying about some Pommy kids stealing shoes in London is like your mate getting his car stolen and us working ourselves up over the loose change he had in his ashtray.

Sorry wot? How do you know this?

Because the investigation found that Mark Duggan was shot once in the arm and once in the chest, that the bullet in the police radio was police issue, and that he had not fired a shot.

the only bullets found at the scene were police issue - suggesting there was NO WAY the victim could have fired his weapon as claimed by the police (refer to all the usual stereotypical lines used by the police to 'cover up' their fuckups) - then add in the anger at how the family were treated... then the batoning of a young girl at the demonstration over the handling of the affair - all in the news papers on and offline

ok


But he did have a weapon right?

yes.

for the record the armed british police (ahem) whilst executing a warrant shot dead a black man

now why were they armed? because they were from Trident responsible for targeting gun crime in the black community (saving blacks from being shot to death by other blacks, kids mostly) and they must have had reasonable suspicion he'd be armed

for those of you with little knowledge there have been many gun murders in London and beyond and innocents have been caught up in it

if in fact he was armed and did resist as alleged then they were perfectly within their rights to shoot back

as someone pointed out to me maybe the cop was a black man himself (I don't know at this stage if this is so)

now that would be interestin g wouldn't it

So he waved a gun around, police fired and in the confusion one of them shot their own radio. they initally though tthat bullet came from Duggan but it didnt...so now you guys want to tear down society and let it burn.

Fucking beatniks

Nobody's endorsing the rioters.

far too early to say that

preliminary investigation has thus far...would be more like it

So the guy didn't shoot first. Why on earth do the police have to wait to be shot at before they take action?

Trident targets black youths as mandated - in some quarters this is called racial profiling and its not seen as a good thing (refer racism) - refer to many debates on this topic in the US

and lets not forget this is a police force in the midst of huge corruption allegations - so not exactly a trusted bunch of late - if ever, the Met have a long history of race complaints and heavy handed tactics, ie are not generally liked (refer wire tapping, news of the world etc)

it doesn't matter what colour the police officer was - why would that have any bearing on the shooting or aftermath?

No. A black cop is as likely to be racist, if not MORESO (because he isn't restrained by the same race-based social constraints as a white cop), than the Constable fucking Keith figure you cunts are imagining. As for the rest of your ramblings, there is no evidence he fired his converted starter gun. And the police present have already lied in saying he did. As for their reasonable suspicion, it sure doesn't sound like they need or employ it to me. It sounds like they see black cunts and search 'em.

But it depends whether you choose to believe people who live in the area and are directly affected by this shit, or you trust the people who control the country and the media.

Can't blame it on the poor, can't blame it on the youth, it HAS to be a race problem!

because we don't condone the killing of innocents - no matter what their alleged crime

we don't condone assassinating alleged criminals

we don't condone murder

Police follow guidelines and procedures for good reason - and yes mistakes are sometimes made, they are human after all - but when a mistake is made attempts to cover up or frame the situation in a inaccurate light by the authorities only add to the frustration (hate) some members of a community may feel - especially those who've been targeted for police harassment because of the colour of their skin

The specifics of the shooting aren't even that important really... what matters is whether, prior to the shooting, there was a *justified* sense of persecution by the (mostly black) underclass in that area.

And for the record, I do think the coppers should be able to shoot first if a suspect pulls a gun out...

The most likely situation as I see it has cops overzealously shooting the cunt, perhaps after having found his adapted starter gun or maybe after having been told he had a gun. 90% imho. Another report is out tomorrow so maybe we'll find out that these cops killed another black dude within their own rules of conduct. We'll see...

you've rushed to your conclusions

I haven't

in this case it is alleged that he didn't pull the gun out - but one was found on his person wrapped in a sock - a starters gun converted to fire real ammunition

I would only support a shoot first policy if the alleged criminal was committing a crime and threatening people (ie not being taxied around the city, or riding the tube) - following a person may provoke them to violence....

ok well that changes everything -- will just have to wait for the report I guess...

and do you think black community leaders would be against profiling of thugs within their midst who kill their young and innocent? maybe even demanded it?

recent revelations about unrelated police corruption have nothing to do with it though their image and be tarnished (mainly in upper echelons of society)

doesn't change anything gummi - just another side or perspective on the allegations - none of which have been proved either way, yet

however history is on the side of those who don't automatically trust the Met's version of events, unfortunately

I agree, I have made assumptions which I believe will be borne out, but as gummi says this is just the last straw. The case specifics, as you point out, are largely conjecture at this point but are really just semantics as, though I believe an injustice has been perpetrated by police, it is only the smallest injustice in a situation involving truly global injustices.