Promo, SPAM, and so on..

So. How would you lads do it?

I have a label to manage now, and, like many of you, detest forum spam, so what other methods are commonly employed these-days?

Lightsabers and robots!

i would totally go to a gig that advertised in this fashion. it would give me a chance to get my lightsaber out actually.. djing and slicing annoying punters arms off.. that would be an epic night.

so TimK was right... you are a male or at least have certain male apendages

Hey Lady and Bob.
Proof, you more than contribute in positive ways, so anything you promote here will be (IMO) warmly recieved.
But then, what do I know, Im just a wannabe french wanker who lives at the beach. I live in a house however, with walls and everthing.
You do need to post you Bromide mix you gave me the other day, its really good!!

you should know, i am your life partner after all.



agree, when you are an active part of a community people will always respond to what your getting up to.

and please, proof, post mix. i still rep all those ones you gave me when you were in welli.

btw, leknight, jellus of your walls, i just have old sticks holding up a pieces of canvas. gets a little chilly in the winter, tbh. just as well that im a fat, hairy man and have bob d to keep me warm at night.

Yeah, Im stoked with me walls!
Dont worry about the canvas things, it just makes you well 'ard! And besides somebody might see you and stop to give you some fruit or a bottle of vodka!
Put up a sign that says "Im house muthafucka, you honk, Ill drink!"

As you yourself mentioned in the "Promoters read first" thread, spam is only spam if the only interaction with the forum is to promote something. Since this is not the case with you, and many people here would be interested in what you have on the boil, biggie is one way to do it imo

As for other ways, I use twitter heavily, facebook not so much these days as it's gets pretty overrun but that is still an option. Maybe get on some other forums and participate - earn your right to promote on there too. Find other people whose interests align and who are up to related things and promote each others stuff. Your email database is an invaluable tool for marketing too dude, read up on the best ways to structure email promotions, keep things short, and provide bits and pieces to keep people interacting and interested, then market all around that stuff. Possibilities are pretty endless

I am a human HOUSE heater

giving off positive vibes and manky smells

Don't do what some other NZ labels do just post it on biggie and hope people see.

good helpful advice

Yes it is you get people who think they're underground house running labels and think it's bad advertising! If you want to be a label treat it as a business.
I think forum posting label releases is fine as you can decide whether you want to look at it. It's email spamming that is annoying! Especially on facebook you get 3 diff people sending you the same message or who are admins on diff groups sending you the same message just makes me leave the group!
Best thing to do is start a website with an email list and only one person is in charge of emails that way you won't piss people off. Also build up your label as a brand get good logo's from the start not like labels who change after a few releases thats just crap.

Sorry - you just used the B work.

I'm not trying to develop a 'brand' I am trying to promote music.

I'm certainly not worried about Biggie trying to mod my posts...

Proof I think you should hire TimK. He's amazing at business.

Well then you just failed because promoting music is branding in business no matter what you do. Fail!

Fail!!

No.

Some people might just be a little smarter than referring to their 'product', one which is generally pushed as passion, a creative, a lifestyle, as a 'brand' in a public manner.

That talk is really should be kept in the boardroom.

What would you prefer to go to.. the party of the year, or the branding exercise of the year?

Just because it might be a little more to us than a commodity, doesn't make it a fail.

Like one local radios stations very tired motto would say - 'it's all about the music'..

..sometimes, just sometimes, it actually is.

Nope because if it isn't marketed to the right crowd the music will fall on deaf ears.

For all I know you make country house!

Branding is a part of business it's not a "dirty" word it's how it is.
It's a business treat it as one or don't get in the business.

Fail!

Heh, thats actually some semi helpful stuff thrown in there amongst the insults. You're slipping Tim

Proof - it may not be the path you want to go down given your personal modus operandi and motivations, but it is good general advice.

Your not the right crowd.

I'm not in the 'business'.

Sure. Find an easily consumable product, tie it in with the desires of your potential audience (selected for high disposable income, and a disposition to be led), i.e. sex, hedonism, acceptance into a peer group, then repeatedly switch between your product and those desire to form an emotional tie between the two.

Fail again! Label Manager? Are you sure?? I think you should quit! You just lost someone who might have been interested in listening to what your label is putting out and tell people about it but with your attitude why would I.
Word of mouth is better then all the forum spamming you could do.
I am your crowd! I listen to breaks and I've listened to your tunes before. lol
Your definitely not in the business! I feel sorry for artists on your label who depend on you.

actually, proof, i hate to do this, but this statement is wrong. as much of a muppet as timk comes across as, you dont actually know that he isnt the right crowd. its always about looking outside the square and pulling in new people. its how the scene grows. you cant do that by assuming that x person isnt interested, or isnt the right crowd.

in my experience anyways.

My somewhat vague and general advice would be to think about how you can connect with your audience in a more direct manner rather than just plastering up virtual or physical media and hoping people pay attention to it.

Work with promoters who push a similar sound and get something physical into the hands of the punters.

Attitude? I know. Its a fairly arrogant attitude to consider music more than just a commodity or brand. Sorry about that.

I do like how you come on here and start insulting everyone regular then throw a little mini paddy as soon as someone suggests they might not actually care what you think.

I'm glad you listen to breaks, and that you have taken the time to listen to some of my tunes.

You might like some of the other tunes on the label - hell - you might even already have some of them.

Not that anyone on the label is depending on anything other than having their music out there.

The 'crowd' I am going to focus my time on, is people with a slightly 'older' taste in house & techno, who appreciate music that will last a little longer than the latest top 10 playlist. You know, really good music.

Hopefully some others will join us along on that ride as well, maybe even you Tim.

Thanks for the on topic post.

The issue I have, which is going to be the main challenge (at least initially) - is that its not based in NZ.

I will obviously push it a bit locally as well - and certainly be looking to feed as much local music out through it, but the primary focus is in Europe.

I know its a bit of a challenge I have taken on. But hey, im all up for challenges in life.

Your are arrogant and an idiot my posts where on topic just because you don't agree with the running business side of things then you seriously shouldn't do it your whole attitude towards it is shit!
Be me guest run a label that makes no profit can't pay you artists so then your artists can't afford to make more music if thats what you want yay! Because it's all about getting the music out there??!
You might as well give the music away I hope we see lots of free ep's on this forum!!
Change your attitude mate or just shut up about your label. And yes I do have issues with people on this forum who say that "crowd" is into electro we don't want to know "those people" were all "house" and I'm sick of it and people like you pretending to run labels then complain later that no ones listening to your music stuff electro "stuff young people they don't know music"
And you sarcastic remarks about top ten and "good music" just make you sound like a dick!
If I listen to your music it's obvious I'm not a top ten listener!!

Just to clarify - is this a troll account?

You seem to have some kind of history with this board that seems to have finally gotten the better of you.

Or maybe I've met some of you...

Oh... mysterious..

Manukau..

Your not a La'Salle lad are you?

wow you took time out of your day to check my pro according to that I'm offline. lol
Touch a nerve did we.
Yawn. Shouldn't you be managing a label or something. lol.

True.

Us two bantering is hardly content.

Seeya.

lol.

Is there more info about the label anywhere Proof? Is it a net label?



I agree with this, I am a snob and hate the term 'branding' but most of the labels I love have a particular aesthetic that goes with the music. If you look at my crates you can pick out the cadenza records easily, the perlon records easily etc because those labels each have a recognisable style.

If you're concentrating on Europe maybe try to get some copies into the remaining influential record stores; I would think having someone like Marcel Dettmann or Dj Pete pick up your track and play it would do more for your profile than spamming 100 forums. Maybe someone like Mr Beesting would know more about how to do this.

Also; the talking shop interviews on LWE are some interesting reading about labels, maybe they don't give away too many secrets but interesting nonetheless:
http://www.littlewhiteearbuds.com/talking-shop-with-innervisions/

^^ dunno how to link to all of em but there is the innervisions one.

Still setting a few things up at the moment chap.

Will let you know with a proper 'press release' shortly.

I will say this - it is from one of the guys behind Plastic City (how is used to sound), if that gives you an idea of direction.

Thanks for the link. Will check them out.

Hmmm, I think how you perceive said poster is clouding what he is saying, and he gives some good points to be honest.

Take Tom Cosm for example, he gives his music away for free, "for the love of it", but he still has a business model to achieve this.

People very rarely stumble upon music, you have to brand yourself in way that people take notice, Cosm brands himself on free music and good shows... but he still brands himself.

End of the day, business is not a bad word, it's how you use it

IMO, 2 cents and all that guff

agree, nacoa!

at the end of the day, a business survives when you remove the emotion. most of us are in it with emotion invested, though. we love it, therefore we want to further. BUT, in order for it to survive, it must be run with the brain and not the heart thinking.

the best way to further a label and music, is to get those that people look up to to play it. people pay attention to the names, if hawtin is playing something, you can be guaranteed that far higher percentage of punters will take notice than if a local dj drops it.

sending out packs to those in the game and asking for their responses will increase your sales ten fold imo. then, setting up mailing lists with new release details and djs views underneath is a good way of doing it.

track x by artist y

internationally respected dj says <insert his thoughts here>
locally respected dj says <insert thoughts>

and so on..

A good doco on something like this is The Rise and Fall of ECW,

it's about wrestling...


but same theory applies, it shows that passion can only take you so far...

Nacoa - you are right, TimK's introduction to the forum has probably clouded my responses...

Thanks for the suggestions in the tread so far all..

you just want to play fight, dont you.

one of the toughest things i learnt in promoting is to remove the emotion. my last "brand" was my baby, and when we lost it, due to things that dont need to be discussed, i was devastated. i had invested my heart and soul into it. i wasnt even sure if i wanted to promote again because of it. but at the end of the day, for the other parties involved, it was a business decision. even if i didnt agree with it, their emotions werent invested and they wanted to move on.

it taught me a lot about the business side of it all and i do thank them for it, i just wont jump in to bed with someone with has full financial control again.

viral marketing is another thing to look at, proof. get people talking about something before you launch. tweak their interest, and when you actually release, the hype from it will guarantee that people will take notice. look at the road cone on top of the sky tower, it got people talking, then they launched the new v product.

obviously that might be a little ott, but its food for thought.

A record label has to have a sonic identity to be successful. An evolving one, but one that people will say "that's a Get Physical record" or "the Plastic City sound". There are countless ways to do this, but the main one, is having a solid A+R person that seeks out tracks that suit the label, and develop artists signings on the label, rather than just picking up music because they can - which labels who generally falter tend to do.


As important as the sound of the label, is it's image. You are running a business, and since you are running a promotional service for this business, it is most certainly a brand. I'm not going to get into the ins and outs of what merits 'art' etc etc. that's been done a million times. We are all in it for the love of the music, so let's just move on from that rather tired point.


Jeff Mills and Richie Hawtin ran a series of seminars with leading labels, distributors and general movers and shakers in Europe. There were a lot of very cool ideas thrown about, but very best big of advice that everyone at the seminar agreed on was this:

Establish and evolve a working relationship with a graphic designer who has a design vision that matches your sonic vision. Simple idea. But most people get it wrong.
Labels with good sonic-visual combination like M_nus, Mobilee, Spectral Sound, Cocoon, Kompakt, etc are all powerful record labels because they care about things like how their music/products look, feel, sound and the x-factors.... they have created more than the sum of the parts.


If you are selling a product then it is a product.
If you are giving away music for free, then cool, just don't really expect anyone to care about it unless the artist/label has already built up a very solid reputation first.


The simple thing is that a record label should be able to put out a whitelabel and sell out based on the music, but look at 'cool' labels like WAX, Basic Channel, etc from Germany, they still have an image, even if it's one word stamped on a white sticker.

I never post in here, always read but never post.

Proof, you have amazing passion, talent, knowledge and desire. But that dude up there ranting is sort of on the money.

Everything and anything you're wanting to 'sell' is a product, it needs to become branded to identify with people. 'Brand' isn't a dirty word and having a business model for music is a good idea.

I set up to create Antiform as a brand three years ago and although I don't manage them anymore I think what i did worked? Every decision I made for them was keeping with the brand of Antiform.

I think you could become really successful if you opened your eyes up to a wider audience. I know I'm not (and people LIKE me) aren't your target market but there is some good advice in this thread.

Good luck!

Haha told you people could read between the lines of my crazy talk. You are a snail mixed with a monkey. lol.

Putting yourself in a genre is branding. Everything you like you probably like more because of what it represents.
Like the tool cd aenema. I bet people liked it more because it had a holographic cover on it. lol
I bet you don't have cheap audio gear either and that it's all brands!!
Once you try to sell your music it's a commodity.
But I don't why your talking all this music commodity crap for? Your a Dj and you probably add new tracks every week and discard old ones every day don't think you'll be playing the same tracks for more then 2 months. People like you are just full of crap and don't know what your talking about.
Like people from the House genre complaining about electro they're just jealous and wouldn't moan if their gigs had as many people attending thats why they are bitter homo's. "we don't want people like that at our gigs" Is what they always say too.
But if they like house they are your people no matter what they look like or how they act.

You've got a long way to go before you can manage a label.
Shame Poof. lol.

and then you had to be a complete fucktard and resort back to the insults, timk.

if you are involved in music and care about that you will never use the words Branding nor Product

if so you may as well get a proper career where there is a chance to earn a living

music can be both a brand and a product but I prefer that which is concerned primarily with being art

these discussions depress me... everything boiled down to business 101 talk with little to no comprehension for what really drives a music fan....

TimK you have actually contributed some interesting points... they will serve you well in mcdance land

I did.

Fail! If you are involved in music and love it you want to share it with people! There is nothing wrong with branding. Why the fuck would I want a "proper career" when I can earn a living off music.
Your depressing I think you depress yourself!! If heylady is your partner she has more balls then you and needs to loose your fat ass. Who would wana be around a depressing homo like you I thought she could pick a loser from a mile away?
You eat enough Mcdonalds for all of us fatty. lol

People who wank on about their 'art' not being a 'product' are people who can't get their art released.
Generally.

Not all the time.

Most fantastic art has been released as a product. Somehow.
(ie. advertising, promotion of it, and a sale to a buyer who then put's it in their collection, display, basement etc).

an artist who calls their art product is no artist, they are a technican

call it your "brand" or call it your "style"

it doesn't matter what you call it, people will eventually come to associate your logo, your music, your imagery and all the other tangible and intangible characteristics as your particular brand/style

the main thing is to keep it consistent

don't change things around after a few releases so that eventually people will be able to spot your records in a darkened club from 20 yards

I would even go so far as to develop a very particular pattern for releases as well

for example, your mail list gets it one week before any one else does, then websites/magazines then a wider press release after that but you maintain the same pattern each time

I don't really know how this stuff works but you get what I mean

keep it consistent

but to answer your original question

email lists are good, if I sign up to your email though I want to know about it at least one week before you do a wider press release so then I can ask all my friends if they have heard the new whatever from whoever, which makes me feel cool like I'm part of the inner circle

aside from that get your stuff track listed, send it out to the radio stations and hope they mention it on air

also what Rips said

Bob, respectfully, that is the biggest load of shit I've ever heard.

When an artist sits down with their record label, radio station network, tv network, lawyers, local government body, art council, media service, design studio, special effects team, exhibition space, publishing house, etc etc... they are talking about products, even if they don't use the exact word.
To believe otherwise is either blind, dumb, or contrary.


Artists who don't give their art to other human beings are still artists, but like the tree falling in the forest, it doesn't make a noise.

snowflake - bang on.

Strategy is a good thing to have. Most labels don't make much money at first, lots is poured into things like logos, printing, finding the feet.... then after a while things start to settle into a groove, then you start spending more money on things like label nights and special events etc


"Art is the process or product of deliberately arranging elements in a way that appeals to the senses or emotions."


I'd probably adjust the 'appeals' to something like "intrigues"

fair enough

language helps us define our world and our place in it

if you consider the modern music world and that of recording companies to be in a good state of health you can thank them that talk/think product, units and the bottom line

now thats what I call music

I think this sorta comes back to the

Artist = Artist
Promo/management/marketing = Promo/management/ marketing.

This is why most artist, muso types have managers, they only have enought space in their head for their art. (not all the time but most)

I've found most (generally) musicians to be lazy and thus need someone to do everything for them

they then moan about the fact they can't earn any money as it all goes to other people - the its always someone elses fault gripe



in a world of ever decreasing returns an artist often cannot afford to pass everything off - a bit of time learning the industry bascis (its not rocket science, even TimK gets it and he's only 7) alongside their craft isn't too much to expect IMO

there are exceptions but following my earlier point most musicians are technicians not artists IMO