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[quote]
This could be the best thing for the tour in years if he did come back. It would be fucken exciting as hell!

Lance Armstrong will come out of retirement next year to compete in five road races with the Astana team, according to sources familiar with the developing situation.

Armstrong, who turns 37 this month, will compete in the Amgen Tour of California, Paris-Nice, the Tour de Georgia, the Dauphine-Libere and the Tour de France — and will race for no salary or bonuses, the sources, who asked to remain anonymous, told VeloNews.

Armstrong's manager, Mark Higgins, did not respond to questions.

However sources close to the story have told VeloNews that an exclusive article on the matter will be published in an upcoming issue of Vanity Fair, expected later this month.

Rumors of Armstrong's return swirled at last week’s Eurobike trade show in Germany and this week’s Tour of Missouri.

The rumor speculates that Armstrong will reunite with former team manager Johan Bruyneel at Team Astana — a viable option given Armstrong’s long-lasting relationships not only with the Belgian director but also Trek, Astana’s bike sponsor.

According to sources, the Texan will post all of his internally tested blood work online, in an attempt to establish complete transparency and prove that he is a clean athlete.

The rumor, which has been rampant for nearly a month, gained legs when former Discovery Channel team director Dirk Demol signed with Astana for 2009.

“I am excited to be reunited with Johan Bruyneel," Demol said. "What Johan has been able to do this year with Team Astana is quite special and admirable and I look forward to being a part of his program once again. It will be a new team with some familiar faces, but I know the winning philosophy and structure have remained the same.”

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Other rumors are that Armstrong will continue to pursue mountain bike racing, and may try his hand at cyclocross as well.

Should Armstrong return with Astana, it would bolster a squad that arguably boasts the sport’s best stage-racing team.

In Missouri, Columbia rider George Hincapie, a close friend of Armstrong’s and the only man to ride on all seven of the Texan’s Tour winning teams, simply smiled when asked what he’d knew about the rumor, saying, “I don’t know anything.”

Armstrong re-enrolled himself into the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency’s out-of-competition testing pool prior to August’s Leadville Trail 100 mountain bike race, where he finished second to Dave Wiens, said USA Cycling chief operating officer Sean Petty.

USADA rules state that any athlete who wishes to come out of retirement must enroll in the USADA out-of-competition testing program for at least six months in advance of regaining eligible status.

A return to racing would no doubt bring large crowds to American races, and could perhaps save the Tour de Georgia, which is struggling to land a title sponsor.

Petty said that should Armstrong wish to return to racing, “it would be one of most exciting things to happen to American racing since he won his seventh Tour. Depending on his plan, if that is what he wanted to do, it would be tremendously exciting and would generate a tremendous amount of attention on the sport, and on what he’s doing. People would be very interested to see how he would do in a comeback.”

The last big-name rider to return from retirement was Italian Mario Cipollini, who signed with Rock Racing and competed at this year’s Amgen Tour of California after three years away from the sport. Cipollini failed to win a stage, but took third in a field sprint and said, “This finish means as much to me as any victory.” Following the race Cipollini had a contractual dispute with Rock team owner Michael Ball, and left the team.

http://www.velonews.com/article/82892/sources-lance-armstrong-coming-back
[quote]
must be a brand new batch of undetectable roids out?
[quote]
Damien said:
must be a brand new batch of undetectable roids out?


Unbeliever!
[quote]
Damien said:
must be a brand new batch of undetectable roids out?


Doesn't need to.

He surely took HGH for so many years (hence his enlarged heart and jaw/face which changed shape throughout his adulthood :rollSmile.. he could have been doing it for a couple of years then be clean for six months... the effects of which pretty much don't wear off.

R
[quote]
stueethedog said:
Damien said:
must be a brand new batch of undetectable roids out?


Unbeliever!


dude. when a "clean guy" wins the tdf against roided younger fellas.. u know something is up. Especially when hes only popping out half the testosterone. Actually, probably less than half than a 24 year old.

sure, hes got a big lever in his legs, but like RobW said.. his big ticker.. thats almost a sure sign of roids.
[quote]
RobW said:
Damien said:
must be a brand new batch of undetectable roids out?


Doesn't need to.

He surely took HGH for so many years (hence his enlarged heart and jaw/face which changed shape throughout his adulthood :rollSmile.. he could have been doing it for a couple of years then be clean for six months... the effects of which pretty much don't wear off.

R


with his face i think you'll find that he got leaner post cancer, and that contributes to how his facial appearance changed. i've seen a vid of him tearing us tri champs at around 17 and he was carrying much more weight back then.

i know when i get leaner, my face changes shape.
[quote]
to damo

quote:
Cancer can be performance-enhancing

A recent article claims that the American legend's testicular cancer actually helped him during the Tour de France.[10] The article outlines that surgical removal of testicles (even one) re-positions the body's hormonal system, playing with the feedback system of normal testosterone production. Consequently, a cascade of events which allegedly favor or enhance endurance performance is proposed by the authors. They suggest that the increase in LH to testosterone ratio and the increase in free fatty acid to glycogen utilisation ratio which resulted in an increase in power-to-weight ratio (a favourable characteristic for mountain climbing) and a remodelling of type I and type II muscle fibres in Armstrong's physiology all contributed to his abilities. Another mechanism by which the authors propose that Armstrong obtained and maintained his super physiology was that the altered hormonal state induced an increase in the production of red blood cells.


not that I really believe he's clean either..

I guess he's gone back to cycling cause he's bored of rubbing up against this

[quote]
so slice off a nut, climb a mountain.


thats pretty loose....
[quote]
codpiece said:
with his face i think you'll find that he got leaner post cancer, and that contributes to how his facial appearance changed. i've seen a vid of him tearing us tri champs at around 17 and he was carrying much more weight back then.


It's not so much about weight/body-fat with HGH. Using HGH etc (growth hormones) does something which steroids doesn't - it affects the bones too. Growth plates in the body (skull, jaw, sternum, finger/toe joints etc) This is why long-term growth hormone users (like Arnie) get that massive jaw thing going on and often (as with Arnie) a gap in their teeth.

Fingers and toes also are affected in particular which is why swimmers are very careful to not overdo it, as their feet/hands start to look a bit obvious.

(I only know this as one of my closest mates spent a decade researching/working in hormone use for medicine in the US and has told me some crazy stories about phone calls they would get from sport coaches asking 'interesting' questions)

R
[quote]
Damien said:
so slice off a nut, climb a mountain.


thats pretty loose....


yeah, well i'm hoping the fact that I had testicular cancer will help me with my marathon running aspirations... surely there has to be a silver lining in there somewhere...
[quote]
maybe now is the time to don the lycra Neil?
[quote]
This would be terrible... again years of boring Tour de Frances. Not worth to watch.
[quote]
contador will own him in the mountains.
[quote]
codpiece said:
contador will own him in the mountains.


That's true but now they are on the same team, it will be interesting to see who will be the team captain and what sort of power struggle happens. Alberto will own in the mountains but Lance might own the time trials again, or even possibly Levi, once again, they're on the same team.

If there is a final TT up Venteoux like it sounds like there will be, it will be very interesting to see who gets that, Lance, Sastre, Alberto, Levi, heaps of contendors for that one!

I honestly think it will be one of the most exciting tours next year, but I do feel Astana will close the rest of the field down, unless Sastre and Evans get some really good support, otherwise they're fucked.

CSC will be no longer, Gerolstiener, no longer, Caisse - rubbish really, Columbia no real GC contendor other than Kirchen, Garmin - no real GC contendor, Rabobank, long shot on that one. A very interesting tour if you ask me.
[quote]
RobW said:
codpiece said:
with his face i think you'll find that he got leaner post cancer, and that contributes to how his facial appearance changed. i've seen a vid of him tearing us tri champs at around 17 and he was carrying much more weight back then.


It's not so much about weight/body-fat with HGH. Using HGH etc (growth hormones) does something which steroids doesn't - it affects the bones too. Growth plates in the body (skull, jaw, sternum, finger/toe joints etc) This is why long-term growth hormone users (like Arnie) get that massive jaw thing going on and often (as with Arnie) a gap in their teeth.

Fingers and toes also are affected in particular which is why swimmers are very careful to not overdo it, as their feet/hands start to look a bit obvious.

(I only know this as one of my closest mates spent a decade researching/working in hormone use for medicine in the US and has told me some crazy stories about phone calls they would get from sport coaches asking 'interesting' questions)

R


Pulla here. Long time no post. Suffice to say if I had time I'd bother writing why there is so much wrong with this post. And I do know a little about GH incase you were wondering.

Lance is as dirty as a pig in shit BTW. You only get caught if you slip up in his game. Lance is teflon in that respect.

The TDF was great in the early years of his domination. Lost it's sparkle in his 6 & 7'th wins. 2008's installment was fantastic, and I hope 2009's is better without him.
[quote]
[Hijack]

Pulla!

How's Queenie, if you're still there? Looking at coming down around xmas (business/family/pleasure). Should catch up if you're around. Smile

[/Hijack]
[quote]
He's taking a huge risk with this comeback - he's got nothing to gain and all to lose.

- If he doesn't dominate, everyone will say "of course he isn't now that he's clean".. proof!

- He's opened the door for a public slanging over his failed EPO tests from '99 (?) - the blood samples are still there and the testers have offered to re-test them with the latest methods to sort it once and for all... he and his management are doing everything to ignore this and will take legal action to prevent it happening. = he looks sifty again

R
[quote]
failed EPO tests? where?

i haven't heard anything about that on another site i frequent and that place is obsessed with lance.
[quote]
codpiece said:
failed EPO tests? where?

i haven't heard anything about that on another site i frequent and that place is obsessed with lance.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/aug05/aug23news2

August 23, 2005

French resume pursuit of Armstrong
French sports newspaper l'Equipe has alleged that analysis of samples provided at the 1999 Tour de France by Lance Armstrong indicates the use of EPO.

Quoting Armstrong's 1999 and 2001 denials of use of EPO or other doping substances, l'Equipe then says, "Recent analysis of samples dating from the American's first Tour de France victory demonstrate that Lance Armstrong had already consumed doping products."

The tests were performed on samples taken from Armstrong after his victory in the 1999 Tour prologue, and after stages 1, 9, 10, 12 and 14 of that year's race. L'Equipe alleges that retrospective analysis by the Laboratoire national de dépistage du dopage de Châtenay-Malabry (LNDD) reveals traces of synthetic EPO.

Lance Armstrong has been quick to issue a statement refuting the claims. "Yet again, a European newspaper has reported that I have tested positive for performance enhancing drugs," said the seven-time Tour winner. "[Today's] L'Equipe, a French sports daily, is reporting that my 1999 samples were positive. Unfortunately, the witch hunt continues and [the] article is nothing short of tabloid journalism.

"The paper even admits in its own article that the science in question here is faulty and that I have no way to defend myself. They state: 'There will therefore be no counter-exam nor regulatory prosecutions, in a strict sense, since defendant's rights cannot be respected.'

"I will simply restate what I have said many times: I have never taken performance enhancing drugs."

Given that no UCI sanction seems to be possible, the initiative in testing the 1999 samples using a test that has been available since 2001 appears to have been taken by the LNDD and not at UCI or WADA level

Oh and regarding growth hormone, if you want to see who has been using that shit, I reckon you take a look at Floyd Landis' jawline, fucken huge! Looks like a roided up body builders!
[quote]
If he is so sure those tests are tainted why not prove it beyond doubt and have the blood retested - they have enough sample left.. and could DNA test it to establish beyond doubt it is his blood.

He's got a good argument for it all other than sifty finger-pointing.

The simplest solution to end it all would be to DNA test the blood, then test it for EPO. (fyi, you can't lace blood with EPO by simply adding it a sample)

R
[quote]
hey, anyone see the article that the Drug Testers for the Olympics, are retro-testing 5000 samples for a new epo type compound?

wonder how many will be busted from that..
[quote]
Damien said:
hey, anyone see the article that the Drug Testers for the Olympics, are retro-testing 5000 samples for a new epo type compound?

wonder how many will be busted from that..


Lots.. and they're within the timeframe window to still have their medals/records wiped unlike Armstrong.

R
[quote]
so...lance has never failed any tests.

all that we have is an 'allegation'. it hasn't been proved that he used epo.

anyway..cycling is a bit of a scapegoat when it comes to drugs.

soccer over in europe is just as dirty...
[quote]
also on the jawline issue...as i stated previously, the training elite cyclists do makes them VERY gaunt. they would be in peak condition when you see them, ie tour de france, the fat basically gets sucked out of their face, so what you're left with is a very gaunt, strongly skeletal facial structure.
[quote]
codpiece said:
also on the jawline issue...as i stated previously, the training elite cyclists do makes them VERY gaunt. they would be in peak condition when you see them, ie tour de france, the fat basically gets sucked out of their face, so what you're left with is a very gaunt, strongly skeletal facial structure.


Correct. It would be incredibly hard to ingest enough calories during something like the Tour to even maintain an elite cyclist's bodyweight. Considering these guys are in the low single digit bodyfat percentages, it's no wonder they look so gaunt by the end of 3400km.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but during his battle with cancer, Armstrong lost something like 16 pounds of bodyweight, and maintained that loss coming into his first Tour victory. His VO2 max was similar to pre-cancer days, but he was that much lighter meaning he had much less Lance to haul over the mountains, but comparitvely a far greater cardiovascular capacity.
[quote]
codpiece said:
also on the jawline issue...as i stated previously, the training elite cyclists do makes them VERY gaunt.


Male adult human beings' jaws don't start growing again ten year after puberty. It is a common and telltale sign of growth hormone use to get an enlarged jaw (as well as fingers/toes, sternum or other places where there is a 'soft' growth plate)

Being gaunt is one thing - having a growing jaw is another.. take a look at Arnold Schwarzenegger and ponder why he's got a gap in his top teeth he didn't have when he was young? Add in Lance's famed enlarged heart - another of the most common side-effects of GH use and which is a life-long health liability to anyone except when they're performing at peak performance.

R
[quote]
There is a photo of Arnie in his book 'Education of a Bodybuilder' of him aged 19 taken in the mountains somewhere in Austria. There's a good gap in his teeth then.

Arnold may have taken GH in his later years....but certainly not in his Bodybuilding career. It was all testosterone and dianabol during Arnold's days (Last Mr Olympia win in 1980). Bodybuilding changed when Dorian Yates burst onto the Olympia stage somewhere around 1992. His physique was freaky compared to anything ever seen before, and showed the signs of Insulin, IGF1, and Growth Hormone use, principally distended abdomen (classic insulin sign), enlarged elbow caps, and the Ramjet jaw.

Lance Armstrong's jawline was always square, and angular. Check this shot circa world champs 1993:

http://picasaweb.google.com/cycling.chen/LanceArmstrongUSA#5000206747795324946
[quote]
Let's put a few facts out there amongst all the speculation in this thread.

1. Lance Armstrong is one of the most tested athletes ever in sport. Period. Fact, never failed a test.

2. Some clown brought Hgh into this argument .... hahahhaha you go climb a mountain on your bike (you aren't even a racer are you) and then come back and tell me you want to build muscle to get up that mountain quicker. F off.

3. Contador is the only rider capable of being mentioned in the same breath as Lance. Right now he is as good as or maybe a better racer than Lance, and a lifetime ahead of his current rivals. But Yohan will decree Lance to win if they are equal.

4. If Lance hadn't retired he would have clocked up win number 10 by now.
[quote]
RobW said:
If he is so sure those tests are tainted why not prove it beyond doubt and have the blood retested - they have enough sample left.. and could DNA test it to establish beyond doubt it is his blood.



But, can you prove that blood hasn't been tampered with?

The issue of it being his blood has never been in question, it's the security of those samples that is in question.
[quote]
any cyclists here doing the k2?

having said all of that, i believe it is probably moe likely than not that lance armstrong has perhaps been on some kinda PED, given that he was caning his rival's asses and most of them have been busted at some point.
[quote]
Ron Cole said:
But, can you prove that blood hasn't been tampered with?

The issue of it being his blood has never been in question, it's the security of those samples that is in question.


Yes, they can. Firstly, they can prove it's his by DNA. Likewise, you can't take a blood sample and make it look like it had almost any illegal substance in it... you can't just add a drop of EPO to a blood sample... it can only get there credibly through proper metabolisation.

The truth of it is this:

- The blood in question was randomly numbered and no-one in the testing regime whatsoever has access to which number matches which specific athlete. Claims they made his test show up as positive are bordering on impossible in this sense. No mix-up of samples has ever occurred by this organisation and not been discovered soon after and corrected.

- Armstrong paints a very good PR picture about his current voluntary testing - but yet he wont allow old blood to be retested despite it being in perfectly testable condition and some of which cannot have been tampered with (with him as the specific target).

- Several ex-team mates have given evidence of his attitude towards doping in the late 90s - none of whom has ever been proven wrong except for attempted slurs from Armstrong's PR machine.

- He's gone out of his way PR-wise and legally to ensure re-testing (with or without his permission) of those samples happens. Why?

R
[quote]
May as well add some others while I'm here..

Armstrong's close friend (by his words) Michael Ferrari has been implicated in many high level doping issues. He was found guilty on some counts of sporting fraud in relation to drugs advice/supply. Armstrong went to him for 'training' advice after Ferrari had been implicated a number of time in drugs use. Is he really that stupid to go to someone with a rep like that?

Another of Armstrongs's friend's (ex-friend I assume now) and teammate Frankie Andreu claimed in 2006 that EPO was widely used within the team when he rode with Armstrong. (to be fair he never claimed to see Armstrong take EPO specifically though)

Many top Tour De France cyclists who never failed a drugs test have since said they took drugs during their time on the tour. Bjarne Riss, Festina Team, Richard Virenque, Alex Zulle, Dave Millar, Erik Zabel etc. Some of whom were longtime friends with Armstrong (while he was whipping them in races).

When L'Equipe claimed in 2005 that there was evidence Lance Armstrong failed a dope tests from a 1999 Tour de France test Armstrong argued simply that the validity of the tests had not been proved (legally). The boss of the Tour De France, Jean-Marie Leblanc, who is a leading figure in anti-doping science, said it was a scientific fact Armstrong took dope.

R
[quote]
hmmm...why don't you go post these points on forum.slowtwitch.com rob...where people who actually know what they're talking about will reply. i haven't followed it closely enough nor do i care enough.

lance armstrong has NEVER failed a test and been PROVED to have used drugs. that doesn't mean he hasn't taken drugs.

fact is cycling gets a bad rep where there are other sports where drug use is just as rife. soccer in europe for example...
[quote]
codpiece said:
...

..fact is cycling gets a bad rep where there are other sports where drug use is just as rife. soccer in europe for example...


Fair call on that.. Just trying to point out some of the events which paint a very different picture to if you just read his book or watched the main news stories - which, by and large, don't bother with finer details.

As for cycling and drugs.. Comparing cycling, swimming - basically pure power/endurance sports to soccer is sort of a bad comparison. The gains to be made from taking stuff in sports with a higher skill/hand-eye bias is far less. It would help for sure - but nothing like in cycling/swimming.

In the end - without him offering a valid explanation why all lengths can't be gone to to validify and then retest his old samples (of which there are many around the world) - he will be inviting scepticism. And probably rightly so.
[quote]
See for me, I believe he is clean. He just approached the task of winning the Tour better than anyone else and focused on it as his main goal. It's not rocket science, he just worked harder and smarter. To me if he was on shit, he would have won a lot more and it would have stood out more. But Lance got betten in stages and prior events quite a few times and even fucked up a few times, but afterwards he raced sensibly to limit his loses etc. It's like other athletes focusing on a single goal and aiming for it, why is it so hard not to factor that in?
[quote]
So Lance is doing the Giro and the Tour. I was actually expecting him to drop the Tour and do the Vuelta instead and try and join the three grand tour winners club like Alberto. Going to be an interesting year indeed. I think Astana are going to cream everyone next year in the grand tours

Oh and if you want to follow Lance a little bit more www.twitter.com/lancearmstrong
[quote]
he is also doing the tour downunder. apparently he is looking to be in pretty good shape...

i hear vino could be coming back as well. astana will have an extremely strong team...lets not forget kloden!
[quote]
codpiece said:
he is also doing the tour downunder. apparently he is looking to be in pretty good shape...

i hear vino could be coming back as well. astana will have an extremely strong team...lets not forget kloden!


Vino won't be on Astana if Johaan has anything to do with it I think. Been following things quite a bit actually with Astana, they have the strongest team on the books for the grand tours with 5 podium finishers from all three tours on board, so super domestiques all around for whoever is the strongest, whether that be Lance, Alberto, Levi or Kloden. The only thing they don't really have are sprinters, but a sprinter isn't going to win a grand tour, only stages.

The one thing they will face is all the media and spectator attention, hopefully it doesn't end up like a Cadel evans situation like last year, when basically he cracked, but Lance and Johaan are used to it, moreso than anyone else really. I just hope he doesn't burn out.

Check out http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/armstrong_return_complete for huge extensive coverage of it all since Lance announced his comeback
[quote]
cadel had no support at all tho really.

last year's tour was great. as was the year before.

hopefully the next one is good!

i'd like to see contador take it out. love watching him climb.
[quote]
codpiece said:
cadel had no support at all tho really.

last year's tour was great. as was the year before.

hopefully the next one is good!

i'd like to see contador take it out. love watching him climb.


Yes I love the Way Alberto can just accelerate away from the rest. Reminds me of Pantani they way he attacks, also hints of Lance in there.

I would really love for the Giro to be shown on Sky, but fat chance of that happening.
[quote]
Yeah Sky just confirmed they won't showing any of the giro as they don't hold any rights for showing footage. They said maybe on the Eurosport highlight shows.
[quote]
yeah i wouldnt mind seeing some of the brutal giro climbs..more brutal than tour de france..like agiliru or whatever.

you can always watch it online.

stue..do you cycle much?
[quote]
codpiece said:
yeah i wouldnt mind seeing some of the brutal giro climbs..more brutal than tour de france..like agiliru or whatever.

you can always watch it online.

stue..do you cycle much?


I'm trying to get back into it more. I used to race on the national circuit mountain bikes in the 90s but not anymore. Getting back into road cycling but it's hard finding the time after work and juggling it with the gym as well. Probably only riding about at a stretch 100km a week if I'm lucky, so fuck all really.

Riding hand me down campag on a end of line Giant OCR3 frame so nothing flash at all. Saving for a Colnago CLX, will get 11 speed chorus and Reynolds Assault wheels, once I've saved for it.
[quote]
I'll tell you who does ride quite a bit on here, Backpackboy. He lurks but hardly ever posts. He's been over to France and done one of those Tour holidays where you ride some of the stages in advance before the tour comes through. He said it was fucken awesome standing on a mountain with thousands of crazy euro fans screaming at these guys.
[quote]
Not long now until we see if Lance is up to speed and it's one of the best comebacks or he has made a huuuuuuuuuuge mistake and winds up with egg on his face.

If he is up to speed, he won't win the Tour Downunder but will use it to get back up to race pace etc.
[quote]
he is in better shape for this time of year than ever apparently. he won't win, sprinters normally win this race from memory?

i've decided to have a break from cycling etc after having an injury which hasn't fully gone away for 1 year or so...
[quote]
ps i watched 2 tour de france stages in the pyrenees in 2007. didn't bike up any of hills as was so over cycling at that point (had gone over to do a triathlon)
[quote]
codpiece said:
ps i watched 2 tour de france stages in the pyrenees in 2007. didn't bike up any of hills as was so over cycling at that point (had gone over to do a triathlon)


Nice! Which stages and where on them did you view? Obviously the mountains there are huge, I can't think of anything down here that would compare, except for riding to the top of Turoa or Whakapapa three times a day maybe.

I saw the final stage in 2001 TDF along the Champs, fucken fast!
[quote]
col de peyresourde and plateau de beille.

one of them was the stage which contador won against rasmussen, the other was the one won by vinokourov, which finished by a lake, but contador was attacking rasmussen the whole way up.

there is a race to the top of turoa at some point...can't remember what time of year tho. think it is just from ohakune to the top.

k2 is meant to be on a par with some of the fairly hilly classic one day races. the hills aren't as big, but just as steep if not steeper.

the stage of tour of southland which finishes in crown range would be pretty tough, as would be the stage up bluff hill.
[quote]
RobW said:
Ron Cole said:
But, can you prove that blood hasn't been tampered with?

The issue of it being his blood has never been in question, it's the security of those samples that is in question.


Yes, they can. Firstly, they can prove it's his by DNA. Likewise, you can't take a blood sample and make it look like it had almost any illegal substance in it... you can't just add a drop of EPO to a blood sample... it can only get there credibly through proper metabolisation.

The truth of it is this:

- The blood in question was randomly numbered and no-one in the testing regime whatsoever has access to which number matches which specific athlete. Claims they made his test show up as positive are bordering on impossible in this sense. No mix-up of samples has ever occurred by this organisation and not been discovered soon after and corrected.

- Armstrong paints a very good PR picture about his current voluntary testing - but yet he wont allow old blood to be retested despite it being in perfectly testable condition and some of which cannot have been tampered with (with him as the specific target).

- Several ex-team mates have given evidence of his attitude towards doping in the late 90s - none of whom has ever been proven wrong except for attempted slurs from Armstrong's PR machine.

- He's gone out of his way PR-wise and legally to ensure re-testing (with or without his permission) of those samples happens. Why?

R


Sorry guys, I don’t get on here too often but this is just pure BS.

This organizations integrity has been called into question at least twice to my knowledge and both times they have refused to front in court to defend their position, in fact the ICU has subsequently issued a statement in each case that there was no case to answer.

Specifically the main concern that the samples were no longer reliable evidence as storage protocol had not been observed.

Every time Armstrong wanted the allegations tested in court the interrogators backed down.

An interesting article I read today

http://www.xtri.com/features_display.aspx?riIDReport=5273&CAT=23&xref=xx

If any of you are alleging Armstrong took drugs, then show me the science.

Don’t just allege it …. Fkn show me!!!!!
[quote]
btw ... with the TDU starting in a couple of days ...

don't expect him to win it ...

it would be like expecting Bradman to score 300 on his first game back after 4-5 years in retirement.

Smile
[quote]
i think some of armstrong's rivals have cause to be quite concerned come july....
[quote]
codpiece said:
i think some of armstrong's rivals have cause to be quite concerned come july....


Especially Contador! I can't wait to see Lance go up against Cancellara in the TTs!

I think Alberto will win though. Lance is going to be hounded by the media the entire race, regardless if he is in yellow or not, that'll take the pressure off Alberto and he can do his own race. but then again, Lance is used to that sort of attention, it's Cadel evans who can't handle it. If Lance isn't in yellow though, I really hope he can finally win on Ventoux.
[quote]
i think contador will have him in the mountains. but tts will be a good battle.
[quote]
Just finished reading "Breaking the Chain" by Willy Voet, the soigneur for the 1998 Festina team that got caught with all the EPO, growth hormone etc for the 98 tour. My god, it's pretty hardcore doping in that! Condoms of urine up the arse to get a round dope control, regemented course of hormones, epo and shit. Shooting up speed at after race functions.

Apparently though a lot of names are left out of the english version because of laws and shit, but in the French version it just names loads and loads of people
[quote]
Tour Of California Prologue results 3.8KM course

Results
1 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team Saxo Bank 4.32.9 (50.294 km/h)
2 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Astana 0.01.2
3 David Zabriskie (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 0.02.7
4 Michael Rogers (Aus) Team Columbia - Highroad 0.02.8
5 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Cervélo TestTeam 0.03.1
6 George Hincapie (USA) Team Columbia - Highroad 0.03.4
7 Tom Boonen (Bel) Quick Step
8 Mark Renshaw (Aus) Team Columbia - Highroad 0.04.1
9 Svein Tuft (Can) Garmin - Slipstream 0.04.2
10 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0.04.3
11 Mark Cavendish (GBr) Team Columbia - Highroad 0.04.9
12 Tom Zirbel (USA) Bissell Pro Cycling 0.05.0
13 Ben Jacques-Maynes (USA) Bissell Pro Cycling 0.05.6
14 Tyler Farrar (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 0.06.5
15 Charles Bradley Huff (USA) Jelly Belly Cycling Team 0.07.2
16 Oscar Freire (Spa) Rabobank 0.07.4
17 Hayden Roulston (NZl) Cervélo TestTeam 0.07.6
18 John Murphy (USA) OUCH Presented By Maxxis 0.07.9
19 Peter Latham (NZl) Bissell Pro Cycling 0.08.2
20 Christopher Horner (USA) Astana 0.08.5
21 Jeremy Vennell (NZl) Bissell Pro Cycling
22 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 0.08.7

Lance 10th, but good to see Hayden Roulston, Peter latham and Jeremy Vennel hanging in there with the big names!

Oh and soemone stole Lance's one of a kind time trial bike after the race and 3 other Astana team bikes.
[quote]
Hayden Roulston is a champion, guy got wheeled out of a hospiatl a couple of years ago and told he would never ride again.

Impressive results in California, and now doing well in Paris Nice ... would love to see him end the season one of Cervelos top ranked riders.

Lance looks impressive, but Contador is a machine!
[quote]
Ron Cole said:
Hayden Roulston is a champion, guy got wheeled out of a hospiatl a couple of years ago and told he would never ride again.

Impressive results in California, and now doing well in Paris Nice ... would love to see him end the season one of Cervelos top ranked riders.

Lance looks impressive, but Contador is a machine!


To be honest Lance hasn't been that impressive for me yet at all. Alberto yes, Lance no. But he's in Europe now scoping stages so hopefully he gets his shit together and starts busting out the business. Interesting what he said about the Giro TT course not needing a TT bike for it. It must be fucken hard!
[quote]
stue..lance is purportedly in better shape for this time of year than he has been for ANY of his previous tour de france wins.
[quote]
codpiece said:
stue..lance is purportedly in better shape for this time of year than he has been for ANY of his previous tour de france wins.


Yeah I know, he hasn't been like this in years, probably before he got cancer. The thing is, is he in good form too early and will blow half way through the Tour? He's aiming for top 5 at the Giro apparently.

Also people are now questioning how Alberto can beat Bradley Wiggins by 7 seconds in what is essentially a prologue Wiggins should have won by a long shot and had been training specifically for. Suspicions all around or is Alberto just really that good?
[quote]
contador has beaten wiggins in a number of prologues before. he is a good time triallist.
[quote]
So 8 minutes back at Milan - San Remo. kept up with the pace but missed the break. But tonight is the start Of Castilla and then we se how strong Lance really is when he rides beside Alberto. There is a TT in there as well, race of truth, finally we get to see a comparison.

Good luck to both of them!

Oh and Julian Dean 19th at MSR, good show Julz. He must be happy with that as the rest of his season ahs been pretty off for him so far.
[quote]
Broken collarbone, out for 4-6 weeks,back tothe states for surgery. That's bike racing though, over the bars and hand out, brake.
[quote]
was a clean break tho.

just been informed (reading twitter), he will be back on rollers in 2 weeks, on the road in 3-4 weeks and will start the giro..

fucken machine.
[quote]
So the real test starts on Sunday night (our time) I think Levi will be the best rider on the team myself, will kick all in the time trials.
[quote]
What is this now, 4 or 5 ex team-mates who say Armstrong encouraged them to take PEDs or helped arrange them?

I wanna see if there's any record of the airport footage with Landis when Armstrong's bag got searched and it had vials and syringes in it.