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[quote]
...How much of it is driven by the constant bombardment of propaganda we get from Australia about how great the place is?

I was struck at Armin only by the obvious and deep ethnic divides over there, and if you scratch the surface how frankly racist and misogynist their society is compared to ours. I wonder, therefore, if all the "Australia is wonderful, Australia is great, we are the best" nationalistic bullshit that flows out of the place is because in such a divided society patriotism is the glue they use to hold the place together?

I wonder how else you could interpret the "manifest destiny" propaganda of those Aussie "history" snippets of 10-20 minutes (you know the ones, narrated by the half wit Peter Fitzsimons) that infest the History Channel?

It seems to me the Australian presentation of their history is entirely an exercise in branding - Why, for example, does WWII end at the Kokoda Trail battles? Is it because the performance of Australian trops after 1942 was appalling bad, and marked by significant industrial and class conflict, corruption, widespread reluctance to fight the Japanese and outright cowardice?

How much impact though, does all the relentless propaganda - aimed at an internal audience - have on our country? Does the government need to fund a propaganda counter-offensive to point out how good New Zealand is before cultural cringe defeatism that seems to infest so many Kiwi's who cross the Tasman becomes a terminal disease?
[quote]
We have our own rewrite of history going on here with some pretty one-eyed rewriting of maori v pakeha times and the bringing down of the white male dominated society (by some). Thats not to say there are some reasons behind it but it but it is no better or worse.
[quote]
i lived for a year in australia in a household that included several primary aged children.
over the course of the year i noted their indoctrination to the 'australian way' came mainly from their schooling rather than sporting/social contacts.
most prevalent was the use of the term 'the lucky country', which was very liberally applied to anything that was 'good' about australia...

this i found particularly ironic because (as i will let wikipedia explain):
wikipedia said:
Origin

The title of Horne's The Lucky Country comes from the opening words of the book's last chapter:

Australia is a lucky country, run by second-rate people who share its luck.

Horne's statement was actually made ironically, as an indictment of 1960s Australia. His intent was to comment that, while other industralised nations created wealth using "clever" means such as technology and other innovations, Australia did not. Rather, Australia's economic prosperity was largely derived from its rich natural resources. Horne observed that Australia "showed less enterprise than almost any other prosperous industrial society." [1]

In the decades following his book's publication, Horne became critical of the "lucky country" phrase being used as a term of endearment for Australia. He commented, "I have had to sit through the most appalling rubbish as successive generations misapplied this phrase." [2]
[quote]
bob said:
We have our own rewrite of history going on here with some pretty one-eyed rewriting of maori v pakeha times and the bringing down of the white male dominated society (by some). Thats not to say there are some reasons behind it but it but it is no better or worse.



Laughing A frank discourse about the past with a rigorous examination of the evidence is a "re-write" Laughing



That just tells me that right wingers are always afraid of the truth.
[quote]
mErf said:
i lived for a year in australia in a household that included several primary aged children.
over the course of the year i noted their indoctrination to the 'australian way' came mainly from their schooling rather than sporting/social contacts.




I suppose to a certain extent what we are seeing now in Aussie is the result of decade of Crosby-Textor conservatism under John Howard.
[quote]
The fact Australia actually teaches a national myth is a GOOD thing.

Fishy, you do not understand history. History is not descriptive; it is normative. 300 is BETTER history than any learned textbook about Thermopylae.
[quote]
there is a difference between patriotism and nationalism though vads
[quote]
fish_boy said:
bob said:
We have our own rewrite of history going on here with some pretty one-eyed rewriting of maori v pakeha times and the bringing down of the white male dominated society (by some). Thats not to say there are some reasons behind it but it but it is no better or worse.



Laughing A frank discourse about the past with a rigorous examination of the evidence is a "re-write" Laughing



That just tells me that right wingers are always afraid of the truth.


Hah sure there is frank discourse but it is still only one sides view of the truth - the other side maybe but just as one eyed and self serving.

It is remarkable that people on either side seem to think that the 'truth' (as they see it) will suddenly be accepted and embraced. Especially when there is a percieved agenda. Israel and Palistine are a perfect example - there is truth on both sides yet it is such a divisive issue that no one has a 'frank discussion' on the subject. And similar to that topic you have done one of the common tacts by immediately labeling anyone in the discussion as either for or against - something bush used in his speech on terrorism.

Anyway i believe some of the problems NZ suffer are through the PERCEPTION of aspects of some of our 'frank' re-education. Aussie doesnt suffer that concience so much so can be pecieved as being confident/arrogant or worthy of envy/scorn.