OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA ! !

edited to make sense

I wonder if this black man will do a better job than nelson mandela?

You mean will he stop a massacre of an entire ethnic group who richly deserved it?

Dunno.

stop being a moron fish_boy

I was answering in the spirit of the question asked.

Who thinks that is the first time a US President has ever mentioned gay people in his acceptance speech?

Oh yes, times they are a-changing!

Not according to Proposition 8.

not changing that much.

looks like Prop 8 is gonna pass in California.

That is true - but come on - Sam Cooke? Would John McCain have ever quoted Sam Cooke???????

Regardless of if you agree with his policies or not, I don't think there is any doubt that Obama is going to be good for the US.

Arguing with Vads reminds me of arguing with all my old republican nut job workmates in Baltimore. It's a waste of time and ultimately they're going to threaten to shoot you.

You are one sick fuck.

*puts foil hat on*

Ive been saying this for ages, back when the economy was strong. Every one was saying that the dollar was way to strong for a union.

and jeeee.. look what happened.

Hooray for Obama!!!!!

but, bottomsex!

I knew Obama was going to win

What's so fantastic is just how much he won by, and the power of the mandate for change which that gives him.

His victory speech was awesome. He has a tremendous ability to bring people together for a common cause, and he has a vision of a new America and world. Obama is what we desperately need right now.

This is a great day!

vadinho 2012

ps go obama

A nation where the top one per cent of the richest control nearly 40 per cent of the wealth. And the bottom 40 per cent of people have just 1 per cent.

Yep, Americans are not divided at all vads.

If you honestly believe that there's nothing wrong with America or America's image with the world, just go ask Iceland about the Americans.

Sold debt with cooked book AAA rating which ended up bankrupting their country. Which wouldn't have been sold with proper government regulation.

Go ask the innocent citizens of Iraq what they think of Americans.

Go ask the bottom 40% of Americans what they think of America.

Delude yourself as much as possible vads. It just shines a brilliant white light on how much of a neocon nazi you really are.

For someone who claims to be lefter than anyone on biggie, you sure seem to love the bourgeoisie.

YAY OBAMA!!!!

they figured that one out the hard way



but Don King voted for Gee dub

figure that one out

sit down and be quiet please.

As much as I disagree with vadz' pro-mcain rants, everyone in this thread (with the exception of gummi) are totally missing the points he's making and not remotely engaging.





also if iraq was about oil.....where is it? chris rock said it best. "if i invaded kfc, you better believe wings would be cheap at my house!"

You buying oil in euros then Kris?

i'm from west auckland, i syphon my gas out of other peoples gas tanks :>

Shhhh - don't tell Bush, he's still got a bit of time in office!

You forgot the part where the Bush family is a major shareholder in Exxon Mobil, who just posted their biggest ever quarter profit.

i heard bush had the lake at camp david filled with iraqi oil. that's what i heard anyway.

Excuse me - while you all mouthed platitudes I proved that NZ is in worse shape than America. I used actual facts and logic. The rest of you were too busy masturbating over Obama.

As for being a Republican - please. I'd vote for Lenin if he stood.

OK, so you've got
1. wealth divide
2. massive debt
3. iraq

1. exists. No doubt. The question is, how bad is it? What is the outcome? Less than 12% of Americans live under the poverty line, yet 13% of New Zealanders do. What does that indicate about division of wealth in NZ? When you say things like this, you have to have a comparison point. So, if you are going to say that America needs change, you have to agree that NZ also needs change.
2. No doubt this is a problem. However, you were cheering for Obama long before the recent meltdown, so how can you possibly use this as evidence? And, again, how bad is it going to get? Unemployment won't even reach 10%.
3. Wow! A brushfire fucking war that has killed fewer soldiers than car accidents in America. That has left the US Military STRONGER if anything.

Again, you are turning minor issues into major problems because you simply don't have context. Because you don't know that people can have their hands chopped off, you think chipping a fingernail is the end of the world.

BTW yesterday ONE person had a valid point:

"America is less likely to invade Iran under Obama than under McCain"

See how easy it is? And that was a DJ. And if a DJ can make a clear, concise point, the rest of you should be able to.

And the best evidence - straight from the mouth of Obama himself -

There is more good than bad in America

If Obama says it, why are the rest of you saying the country is falling apart?

Either Obama is wrong, or you are wrong

This is actually a very good point

It's a bit like the stock market

It's all about perception, because flawed perception leads to cognitive dissonance.

I'm pointing out that the perception is flawed. And if the perception is flawed, everything else that flows from it is flawed.

Mass insanity? Mass hysteria? You can't compare it to Hitler, because when Hitler came in Germany was actually facing major problems, but it's a similar cult of personality, even if their politics are very, very different.

Iraq was about regime change wasn't it? Just like Yugoslavia.

More likely to be a global citizen, work *with* other nations for a common good rather than solely Americas (short term)good. Though it must be remembered this is only a change in the very top, not the whole leadership of the country.

I think its a slightly vague but reasonable expectation. And theres nothing wrong with the odd feel good win in war or politics even if the only effect if to boost moral in difficult times.

YAY OBAMA WON!!

His acceptance speech was beautiful, when he thanked his wife i nearly cried.

What an awesome high the african-american population of america must be on right now.

Vadinho, the measure you use to suggest their "perception is flawed" is, well, flawed imo

To expect the common man to use history as an index to judge their plight today is ludicrous. If somebody calls me a nigger on the street tomorrow I don't go, "Phew, at least it wasn't a lynching" :>

My assessment of all things current is relative to the immediate past. To the past that I actually experienced. This all seems quite obvious to me.

There is a place to argue policy, and a place to celebrate. What this thread should be about is a celebration of Obama's victory. It's an historic event many people have looked forward to for a long time.

But unfortunatley we kicked off with the theme of 'let's stick one up vadz.'

The squeeky wheel is being given way too much oil.

So when people say the "younger generation are so rebellious nowadays" are you going to agree with them?

And I could say, compare to the current situation in 95% of the world, America has it pretty SWEET.

America 2008 is far, far more secure than America 1988. And far, far more secure than America 1968, or 1948. Yet there wasn't the same hysteria for change then despite the fact they actually faced a problem that threatened the existence of America.

I still think it's a broken-nail-syndrome.

I love this "historic event".

Because he's black? If McCain had won, he'd have been the oldest ever president; what a victory for elderly rights. Would you have cheered then? If Clinton had won, would you have been cheering for the victory of a woman, especially considering a woman is more representative of America than a black person?

If you support Obama's policies, fair enough, cheer. But don't support his election simply because he's "black" and black people need a chance.

Also, for those accusing America of arrogant, unilateral foreign policy - was the last time you turned on a TV 2004 or something? Throughout Bush's second term he has worked very hard to rebuild the damage he inflicted during his first term. Unilateralism disappeared after a year in Iraq, when America realised it was in for the long haul.

Please don't accuse the current American foreign policy apparatus of the mistakes of 2002 or 2003, thanks.

Just to take this thread back from vads for a moment:

Obama won more votes than anyone else in U.S. history
That's pretty choiceness.

And never before has the saying "too little, too late" rang so true.

Now you want us to forget history?

I agree that voting for Obama simply because he is black, is no way to vote for a President. You won't see me disagreeing with you on that vads.

But you must also take into account that Black people believe he will address black issues a lot better than McCain ever could/would have, although there's no definite way of saying that for sure.

And sure Bush may have met with leaders of the world that were non-threats to repair damage, but he made little to no effort to meet with leaders of potentially threatening countries. Stonewalling people who have concerns with America is no way to deal with foreign relations, in fact I consider it to be the equivalent of putting your hands on your ears when someone is trying to talk to you and screaming "I'm not listening".

And another good post I wish you'd been this clear and logical throughout the campaign, I might not have thought you were an idiot :>

I'm not sure what "black issues" Obama has to deal with - the civil rights act exists?

The issue of Black Vs White in America is still there, Obama winning the presidency was a huge step in the right direction for race relations in the US. If he does a good job, it should ease some racial tension.

The average income for a white family in America is $48,977. The average income for a black family in America is $30,134. According to the latest census data.

In 1964 during segregation, African Americans' income was 58 percent of white people's income, in 2007 it's 61.50%. In the 45 or so years since the Civil Rights movement, the issue of race hasn't bridged much of the divide.

Integration was a one way street, American blacks were able to integrate into white society, but there was no cross integration (why would there be realistically, black neighbourhoods were all below the poverty line). But they were still not treated as equal.

Another problem came with Affirmative Action, which was in effect reverse racism, while noble in its intent, this basically was a step backward for race relations. Apart from causing a rift between white and minority, it also takes away the merit of success.

But the main problem, which Obama will have a hard time proving otherwise, is that even though the Civil Rights movement was hailed as a great success, it was words on paper, and not a change in thinking for the majority of white America.

Electing a black president, with a white vote larger than Kerry received during his election, just goes to show that there's a portion of America that's willing to change.

P.S. I have really only scratched the surface, this is by no means the only list of issues with black and white America.

"To those who would tear this world down, we will defeat you," he said. "To those who seek peace and security, we support you.

"And to all those who have wondered if America's beacon still burns as bright tonight, we proved once more that the true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth but from the enduring power of our ideals - democracy, liberty, opportunity and unyielding hope."

Can't wait to catch this on youtube later

We've already had a jewish prime minster

If you feelin like a pimp nigga comeon brush yall shouldaz off!

yup

So is Obama a symptom of evolving attitudes, or will he somehow implement policies that improve race relations - or perhaps merely act as a symbol that will have the same effect

"Great harm has been done to us. We have suffered great loss. And in our grief and anger we have found our mission and our moment. Freedom and fear are at war. The advance of human freedom -- the great achievement of our time, and the great hope of every time -- now depends on us. Our nation, this generation will lift a dark threat of violence from our people and our future. We will rally the world to this cause by our efforts, by our courage. We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail."

Just as moving. George W. Bush

Or

"We lost -- we lost the trust of the American people when some Republicans gave in to the temptations of corruption. We lost their trust when rather than reform government, both parties made it bigger.

We lost their trust when instead of freeing ourselves from a dangerous dependence on foreign oil, both parties -- and Senator Obama -- passed another corporate welfare bill for oil companies. We lost their trust when we valued our power over our principles. We're going to change that.

We're going to recover the people's trust by standing up again to the values Americans admire. The party of Lincoln, Roosevelt and Reagan is going to get back to basics.

In this country, we believe everyone has something to contribute and deserves the opportunity to reach their God-given potential, from the boy whose descendents arrived on the Mayflower to the Latina daughter of migrant workers. We're all God's children, and we're all Americans."

John S.McCain

Just as eloquent

And if you compare Obama's speech to:

"I run for President, my friends, because I believe deeply in the greatness of America's destiny.

We are the world's lantern of freedom and opportunity . . . the bright beacon of hope that our fathers fought to bequeath us and our children were born to inherit. But I know that unless we restore the people's sovereignty over government and their pride in public service; unless we reform our public institutions to meet the demands of a new day and unless we renew our sense of national purpose, we will squander our destiny"

The beacon etc

It could be a combination of these different things, or one of them only time will tell. It certainly represents a shift in American thinking though. A president elect who's black is quite massive.

Don't also assume that I immediately assume that Obama will be successful. From everything I have heard him say I believe that he can be successful, but then look at Jimmy Carter, he was an absolute failure in a very similar situation.

Obama does have a lot to learn, and his road will not be easy, but there are 2 people who he should look back through history at, Franklin D Roosevelt and Jimmy Carter.

Both could teach him a lot.

Yes that's right. It's historic because he's Black, but you obviously have difficulty comprehending that despite your valorisation of nigga's. Oh and by the way, people voted for Obama for many reasons, most of them nothing to do with race. You don't comprehend that either. And McCain, if elected, would have been 3 years older than Reagan was. Big deal. That ain't historic. It's time you stopped hatred and bitterness from driving your thinking.

would have sounded so much better better if he'd said

"....to the daughter of the slave torn from the heart of Africa."

I'd love to see you say that to his face.
Obama: "Oh Hai resist from Biggie i beg to be your pupil so that an unworthy one such as i may drink from the fountain of your wisdom."

Actually I was indirectly quoting Obama. He himself said 'I don't have all the answers'.

I'd like to point out where I said I would be qualified to teach him something ?

You seem to love sensationalising peoples posts.

So you're saying

If a characteristic, X, has never been seen in a president before, then when a president with X is elected, the event is historic.

X could be anything. First black president. First Muslim president. First 72 year old first-timer president.

Those ALL fulfil the definition.

It's time you started using logic.

Um ok ... you just dont get it

Probably just the way i interpreted what you wrote. Your right, as he also acknowledges, he has a lot to learn.

!

categorical vs. continous measurements

Race is a continuous measurement though?

Didn't think of that, did you!

Looked like the pressure was on VAD-D as he dropped back to pass... but he dodged the rush and threw a 50 yard strike. Touchdown!

Umm, if you can't express yourself clearly, it's not my fault for not understanding.

I provided a very clear statement that can be understood by anyone.

You know why it's historical vads.

A country which enslaved people of colour only ~150 years ago, now has a president of colour.

This is historic .

And a country where it was extremely rare for a person to reach 72 years of age 150 years ago might have become a president

Again, I stated a definition for a "historic" event and none of you have countered it.

And America didn't enslave anybody. There were no state slaves (unlike, say, Rome or Turkey). All slaves were privately owned.

I don't challenge that any of those situations you mentioned with McCain and Hillary are any less historic.

This was a historic election.

Americans, the American media ,in fact AMERICA ITSELF sees Obama's presidency as an historic event - that's what matters

no America did not enslave anyone but slavery was commonplace and culturally, socially, and legally acceptable so that's why electing a black president is historic

your splitting of straws and ridiculous examples smack of desperation

no you just don't GET IT means you can't see the woods for the trees, can't see the bigger picture, can't appreciate or understand the core meaning and significance of this event etc

I think it is historic, it shows a bit of growing up and acceptance from the US which is traditionally a fairly white very conservative political landscape.

Now if they voted in an atheist i would be very impressed!

Sad to think it was only 60 years ago that religion did not feature in American Politics

And I'm glad that you can see so.

Well could someone explain it to me?

I've already defined a historical event. I might simplify it to "an event with no or very few precedents." Which, again, McCain's getting elected - which resist admits - would have been.

The scary thing is when people go beyond "it's historic that Obama was elected, being black" to "it's good that a black person was elected."

12% of the population (fewer than Hispanics).

they all are

Obama being elected reflects equality in a society that has known widespread racial discrimination. it's not just a black/white issue, it's an issue of racial equality across the board. Obama's mention of other minority groups in society in his acceptance speech eg gay people, actually speaking of them as real PEOPLE, is another historic first.

in the words of an American ex-pat political commentator

"the idea of the man is almost more important than the actuality"

succinctly sums up what I was trying to say earlier

There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.

Victor trumps Tracy

yay I win