mixing vs selection

Hey, this hasn't been a thread for a while. Just curious to see out there who is more interested in a combination of DJskills and tracks, or smooth houselike mixes and track selection?

Back up with international Djs if you can, good to see who likes who too

Combination of the two really, but good tracks and a solid selection/ flow beats flawless beatmixing IMO.

I.e - listen to a Carl Craig set - lots of drop mixes and all over the show, but the total effect is always entertaining.. Or Stacey Pullen - hardly flawless, but always incredible to listen to. This is probably because what they're playing and their set structure is a LOT more challenging than what you'd hear from a dime a dozen funky house DJ or Hard-house DJ....

I think this is something that Auckland severely suffers from. People think that what defines a good DJ is how flawlessly they beatmix - rendering a need for DJ's to play safe intro/ outro mix Inland Knightsesqu records.

Hardly creative or interesting is it?

The type of mixing should be kida of related to track selection. More deeper/dub styled techno and house sound better nicely mixed in than droping in the next track over the top a la Mills.
More dance floor orientated techno is usually quite loopy and can be played and mixed like a tool. Even then I prefer a mix of cutting up style like Space DJz and more smoother mixing too, just for variation.

The first time Pullen played in NZ he was seamless and cutting it up at the same time, but then I have never seen mixing skills like that night again, even when he has played here again. I guess all DJ's have better nights than others.

I not much of a fan of "how many tracks can I get in a minute" mix. But then again I dont like pointy shoes much either.

true..
its easy to get to distracted as to how smooth the blend is etc, but realy guys like jeff mills and derrick may are often messy as hell but they still retain their superior status. i think as a performer it pays to take risks.

I have seen relatively unknown Djs play better than Mills.....

Taking risks???? Why, just practice techniques like a turntablist and then turn up at the gig and pull it off. How do you think a train wreck would go down at the DMC's? Why compromise your abilty in front of people just for the sake of being risky?

DMC guys do several months of practice before they step to the decksat a comp!! Then they have to have a few other 'sets' up there sleves for the finals etc. ..
The guys who are into the hip hop world who go places are people who've developed beyond the champ style of mixing, and have come out with serious routines, as well as a flare for the moment which combines in a way that they can do freestyle sets that are jawdropping.

I don't know anyone who practices techno skills at home much (apart from maybe getting the basics of beatmixing and maybe some beat juggling to get your head around the idea)... doing a set routine at a techno gig would be fairly telling I'd say? like playing a set list of records.

I know that Claude Young didn't even own 1200s until the last few years, May hasn't even attempted to do a mix tape for 10 (apart from the odd live recording), and Mills has said that he is fully into the doing something off the cuff and damn the results. (his last set at 2tribes proved that he can do smooth as seamless mixes with the best of them tho).
I'm sure the space djz would have practiced a fair bit when younger, tho I doubt they have time now... mainly they all get their practice in live, so that's probably why everyone takes risks at gigs

I wasnt saying practice out a whole set at home and then try to emulate it, but when the turntablists play as a club dj, eg P Money, they bring those skills and intergrate them into the set as they go.

Maybe techno Djs need to get back to practising at home.....so they can be better DJ's while playing out.

competition scratch routines are usualy alot more than a few months work, more like a year on a proper DMC type routine... practicing a scratch set for that long would bore the hell outta me! and i know of quiet a few serious hiphop heads who consider most of the current crop of international champ quality turntabilists as nothing more than 'turntable geeks' with no musical soul to speak of (nothing to do with any of the top nz turntablists tho, and prehaps the reason many have beeen doin well on an internatty level lately prehaps?).
it would seem that alot of the djs considered to be technically brillant are the ones that take the least risks, ones that will go on tour and play practically the same set every night, cos they've got it sounding tight and people don't know any better.

its selection over mixing everytime for me.

Good thread....

I personally like ripping tracks combined with some creative techniques. Putting together tunes that you know but may have never considered doing...

I like scratching/beat dropping in techno, its fun, and the energy that djs put into it really comes out in the crowd I think....

Although that said watching Steve Bicknell doing the 3 deck mission with funky as tribal drum shit was pretty mind blowing.... Most people would not be able to prevent a violent train wreck...

I like the kick arse driving chewnz i.e. selection rulez. Tho its not just about tempo, certain beats seem to have momentum and energy well beyond their bpm.
But of course mixing is a way of building tension by adding layers and making something new that is greater its parts.

couldn't agree more on the tempo issue peat. theres tempo and theres momentum/energy, and alot of djs dont seem to know the difference, well the probably dont even know what momentum is.

mo-men-tum...??
-nope, me dun no wha that be.
that word/subject is not covered in my 'three easy steps to being a super star dj' book. i've got the right hair cut and the records my book recomends but momentum is not mentioned.. is lack of momentum gona slow me down? maybe i'll get by ok just with peck implants and crotch stuffing.

its hard to sum up. i've greatly enjoyed both the cut 'em up slap stick (sometimes)'mills' aproach but also the smooth layer upon layer blendy style. kinda depends on how the dj pulls it off. i think it shows if to much thought or practise has gone into a particular mix. it may sound technically great but to me seems to lose a bit of soul (for want of a beter word) if it is to contrived. when the mix is spontanious, 'in the moment' and the dj is just going with it, that is what seperates the artist from the operator. in this respect it matters little to me what mixing style is used because the vibe or energy comming from the dj realy moves the crowd. this to me is what defines a great dj from the average. i have my favorite records and my favoured techniques but i am always left inspiered, personal taste aside, when i witness this subcontious confident aproach to music.
i agree with peat about the blending of layers, the third sound. this takes mixing into amazing variations of original composition that are most often very hard to recreate. techno is one of those great musical tools that can do this, a lot of other electronica seem to ignor the potential of this aspect of mixing.
so to surmise, its more important to me what the dj puts into the performance rather than if they are pullin out all the latest italian floor smokers and cracking out a bunch of home tuned (safe) deck trickery. you know?
about the mo-men-tum thing. yes in a way i do agree shotta j and peat. some tracks sound way beter at a slower tempo because at certain bmp's some production realy comes alive. a heavy bass/sub sound for instance often has more of a musical groove slower. spead it up, may still sound cool, but the sound goes kinda flat and towards the background...

"back it up with a dj, who like who":
i dont realy have a favorite dj. jeff mills is always tops but even he has disapointed me at times. he is only human (i think). my favorites always depend on who has the capacity to surprise. i had little experience with space djz befor i saw them but i was so impressed by their unique techno, bootie bass hip hop style that for the following weeks they were my fav's. the same befor that with claude young. he made it look so easy and was skillfully with out effort creating mayhem, punctuating his lack of effort by cuttin the shit up with his elbows and chin. legend!!
who ever can utilize the moment by surprizing and inspiering usualy ends up my current favorite.
a local lad by the name of micheal geddes has done this for me several times. sadly though he gets little exposure and remains still quite under rated..

Had an interesting conversation regarding beat juggling, was told to buy 2 of each record I really really liked, muck around with beat matching and putting them out a bar, dropping back in an stuff.... Me thinks that I will just try putting them on cd and trying that way first =) 25 a pop soon empties the accounts

two versions of the same tune is great fun...id recommend anyone getting their hands into that!
try and try again.

not every record is wicked for double-ups...once you play around a bit you kind of know which ones respond best to this treatment...mostly minimal, clear beats or stabs...no strings etc.

I think cutting up styles work best with a crowd that appreciates what the dj is doing. Ive had strange nights where ive played (what i consider) a magic set with tricks AND flow, without comment from anybody, but other nights when im trying too many (is there such a thing) new tricks and making it all sloppy and i seem to get endless kudos for such good mixing, i figure just cos people can actually hear you working (unless they like and are too familiar with the M Havoc school of beatmixing).

The perception of the audience is crucial (no pun intended) as i remember how funny it was to watch people going off to Derrick May when he does a bass kill for like a couple of minutes, but if lesser known djs do the same trick (on exactly the same tune) people look at the dj like "wheres the frikken bass man?".

Musical or melodical "tunes" are probably best used in their entirety (exceptions, exceptions!) compared with "tool" style tracks that work best when used in a cut up style when you have enough people on the floor to support the vibe you are trying to make with such minimal shizz, but like if the floor is empty, you better have a whole lot of djs (or generally people that have an idea what a dj can do) sitting at the bar to make it worthwhile doing a whole lot of tricks. Ive certainly been guilty of "dj wank" (tricks for the sake of tricks - 4 hour sets CAN get a little dull at times) at times when the selection should have been most important.

I guess what im trying to say is that i figure the mixing vs selection argument depends on the size and type of the crowd. Though it cant hurt to expose punters to techno at any opportunity if made accessable (read: not too intimidating or minimal) ....can it?

wow! verbosity from the slug! the world changes constantly.... heheh

yeah well all that and i still cant really draw a conclusion - put it down to black art peat

Agree totally slug.
With big melody, personally I like to tamper a little with it, get away from the tune doing the work so to speak... not really heard anyone other than Marco Carolla doign this (and only a little), but I really like to cut in and eq melodies, especialyl with 3 decks, you can really take things and fuck them up and create something new out of it. I love melody done well, but there's also a big thing against too obvious melody in techno, so maybe it's just my reaction against the drumclub!! (love drums, and could be quite happy playing drumtrax for hours too, depnds).

Some of my most mediocre sets have got me a lot of backslaps, funny, some of the sets that I'm most proud of have just cruised by... I agree, the more people can tell you're doing something the more they'll respond. Mills, Young and May are all guilty of being rough around the edges, but it works cos they're trying all the time, and 1 out of 10 things sounds a little out, then it's ok.

Saying that, Ben Simms didn't put a hihat out, there's was 1000 of Detroit's finest in attendance, all drooling, so maybe an educated crowd (how more educated than in Detroit?) is more important?
I know what Slug means with having a good floor, or a stack of DJs on the bar - 2 different situations, but you can still have fun with each

enjoyed both the mixing and track selection last night on the show. Better sounds than I heard all weekend in town..

chercher bro