2289 of 62457 members online
Coffee Machines 720 GetFrank GymJunkie Menu Mania Snow Surf Varsity

Forgot Your Password? Create Account
[quote]
I think you will agree, not very much!

http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps/nz.htm
[quote]
I know and when you compare what the rest of the Arab world is fighting for it becomes even more absurd.

http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps/arabwrld.htm
[quote]
Israel has expanded its borders through wars particularly given that the original borders were difficult to defend, so even a small amount like that is worth a lot to those concerned.
[quote]
Lets not start that argument again Stylin.
[quote]
Here's another map. (don't ask me how I found this one, lol)

http://www.baptiststandard.com/2002/4_15/images/davidic.jpg

Shows the borders of the Davidic Kingdom in the 10th century BC
[quote]
Good post Trapper.... So lets say following another hypothetical war in which jews are persecuted in another country, the powers that be decide to place an Israel sized country smack bang in the middle of the South Island... Don't you think some Dunedinites might be upset? Do you think there would be sympathy and support from other New Zealanders who think that the rights of these Dunedinites were being trampled on?
[quote]
youre assuming that the palistinians were actually displaced.

the land to the west of the river jordan was set aside for the jews (a large scrap of dirt that no one wanted - jordan and syria both described the land as worthless)

The jews started to build it up and arabs followed.
[quote]
Ronin I'm not starting anything I am merely pointing out that the International community decided that Israels initial borders were difficult to defend.
[quote]
Yes but you ignore the fact that Israels Original borders were bigger than they are currently.
[quote]
Are we talking about the 1948 Borders?
[quote]
Ronin I would like to see a link please to back up that claim.
[quote]
http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

Have not read the info with it but the maps are correct.
[quote]
ronin: so basically the local arabs of ex-palestine don't understand the rules of western warfare? ie, when "we" beat the turks they should have accepted they have been beaten?
[quote]
Bob said:
the land to the west of the river jordan was set aside for the jews (a large scrap of dirt that no one wanted - jordan and syria both described the land as worthless)


I find it hard to believe no one wanted coastal area in the middle east.
[quote]
What are you on about Cactus? Something i said?
[quote]
Nice link trapper Smile
[quote]
Ronin said:
What are you on about Cactus? Something i said?


was just a response to the link you posted. serious question (i know that's probably difficult to get, seeing as i usually just give you lot shit.. Laughing )
[quote]
You give me shit? I thought it was the other way around? Cool

Anyway, sorry i just found the link more for the maps for stylin, like i said i have not read the notes on teh side.

btw, didn't the turks accept they got beaten or are they still harbouring a secret grudge? Wink
[quote]
i was more implying that the arabs that are now fighting were under the lead of the ottoman empire, correct?

so, when the west defeated the germans and effectivly the ottomans, the arabs should have taken their hat off to us and let us live on their land, correct?

and that's why they are still fighting is because they don't understand those rules... ?
[quote]
Um i think those people that your implying the arabs should be happy to have there were actually there awhile back in history, since when christ was playing fullback for the israelites i think the phrase goes Wink
[quote]
Slug et al: From the link ronin pasted

quote:
Because no other peoples had ever established a national homeland in "Palestine" since the Jews had done it 2,000 years before, the British "looked favorably" upon the creation of a Jewish National Homeland throughout ALL of Palestine. The Jews had already begun mass immigration into Palestine in the 1880's in an effort to rid the land of swamps and malaria and prepare for the rebirth of Israel. This Jewish effort to revitalize the land attracted an equally large immigration of Arabs from neighboring areas who were drawn by employment opportunities and healthier living conditions. There was never any attempt to "rid" the area of what few Arabs there or those Arab masses that immigrated into this area along with the Jews!
[quote]
Sorry the more relvant part was:

quote:
In 1923, the British divided the "Palestine" portion of the Ottoman Empire into two administrative districts. Jews would be permitted only west of the Jordan river.
[quote]
Thanks for the maps Ronin.
[quote]
Ronin said:
Um i think those people that your implying the arabs should be happy to have there were actually there awhile back in history, since when christ was playing fullback for the israelites i think the phrase goes Wink


but according to modern western warfare, that is completely irrelevent. doesn't matter who was there, it's all about who's guns are bigger and better.
[quote]
Well thank fuck we had and still have the biggest guns then aye!
[quote]
We!!!!!!!! Are you jewish?
[quote]
a ha! thanks... just the response i was awaiting....

so basically you can not condemn any violent action that is in the interest of land grabing?


p.s. those bombers make quite a mess, no?
[quote]
no justahalf i assumed when cactus said "we" up in his first post he was refering to the combination of forces that beat the turks, was I right cactus or did you mean something else?
[quote]
you are correct, "we" as meaning the combination of forces that defeated the germans, turks, etc...
[quote]
quote:
so basically you can not condemn any violent action that is in the interest of land grabing?


I don't see your point, surely you are not implying that the primary motive for allies defeating the germans, turks etc was a land grab, it was a by-product of the win not the motive behind it.
[quote]
regardless of whether it was the motive or not, does that make it okay??
[quote]
I don't see your point either cactus.

If a country starts a war and ends up getting its arse kicked then the victor should be condemed??
[quote]
what i'm saying is that, is it okay for the victor to take land off the average citizens of a country whose power structure has been defeated??

and why is that okay?
[quote]
its a good point cactus but the turks were themselves occupying territory gained from oppresive occupations. It was most certainly on the minds of leaders of france and britain about the carve up of the ottoman empire, but they had actualy promised a united arab self governed country which included palestine. This was to get arab support to overthrow the turks, but the british rengged on thier promises and thus created much of the troubles we have today.
[quote]
wow, that's a pretty small amount of land!!!

what a waste of life (on both sides)