John Key Evaluation Matrix

I am going to keep this absolutely civil.

Two elements:
What, exactly, do you think are the problems facing New Zealand today? Specifics.

What, exactly, do you think Key will "change"? I want specifics not mindless platitudes.

E.g. "Key will reduce poverty in New Zealand by 2% by 2011"

Every six months from Jan 2009, I will evaluate those assumptions, enabling us to track the performance of Key against the perceptions of those who supported him. It will also enable me to test my hypotheses that those who voted for Key do not actually know what they want from him, apart from some mindless dog-salivating-feel-good messages about change and progress, and that those who believe New Zealand is in trouble don't actually know what that means.

I ask that we avoid any attacks in this thread, and simply keep to the criteria mentioned.

the international situation the international situation the international situation and how it affects us

I don't think there's much looking beyond that right now to be done

how long it lasts and how severe is anyone's guess

Was it likely Helen was going to stick around after the election even if they won? I wouldnt think so as her successor needs time to make his/her mark...

Anyway, leave being vadz to vadz resist.

So can someone give me a measurable goal ?

National have policies :>

I'm not sure National have goals as such just ideas...

Key said in his address he plans to create more jobs though.

Cut the police budget by 10% probably

increase prisons budget by 10%

I recall at one point her saying yes, no question that she would be around

Hi Resist

I can't answer your question in the way that you want but I voted for National because I believe in "equality of opportunity for all, not the equality of outcome", if that makes me a dumb voter in yours or any other persons eyes then I think I can live with that. I am hopeful that John Key can deliver on his promise to run a moderate centre-right government & bring us through the recession.

well, if you beleive in equality of opportunity then you shouldn't have voted for a right-wing government.

How do a person that is born to a poor family in south auckland who goes to shitty school have the same opportunities to somebody that is born to a rich family given the best education money can buy?


what you actually beleive in is equality of right, not equality of oppurtunity...

no I believe in "equality of opportunity" when you say equality of right I assume you are referring to 'equal opportunity' which is not the same thing.

correct me if I am wrong.





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"some dude off the internets" is presenting a right wing view that completely distorts what the left stands for, and like most on the right it completely distorts the idea of equality of opportunity..

"some dude off the internets" was me being light hearted, guess you missed it :>

anyway from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

"The slogan "equality of opportunity" commands wide allegiance among the members of contemporary societies. Under scrutiny, equality of opportunity divides into several different ideals, some of them being opposed rivals. It is controversial which of these ideals, if any, are morally acceptable, and which, if any, should be coercively enforced as requirements of justice. (For a moderately skeptical overview, see Cavanagh 2002.) Debates about the seemingly banal norm of equality of opportunity reveal profound disagreements as to the nature of fair terms of cooperation in the modern world."

so shall we agree to disagree?

Thing that gets me is that even in NZ theres several socialist parties. If they cant agree on the common goal and be collective by choice what hope do they have of getting the whole country going?

sparkymo, why do you believe that "equality of opportunity" increases, or is more likely, under a National rather than a Labour government?

"ACT's return with five MPs is a surprise resurgence, marking the comeback of former Labour finance minister Sir Roger Douglas.

Sir Roger made it clear yesterday that he wanted a role back in the Cabinet - but Mr Key repeated his refusal to have him there.

"I made it clear on the campaign trail I was going to lead a centre-Right government that was moderate. I do not believe that's compatible with having Mr Douglas in Cabinet.""

well given the cycleways importance in National's job creation policy it is ineteresting to read in the herald this morning that not one metre of it has actually been laid so far.... John Key fail imo. money has been allocated but until it gets built
it wont create too many jobs or help tourism much.

I blame resource consents... but seriously, its a nationwide project you dont think it might take some time to get going?

so, not really that useful as a jobs creation strategy then huh... a year is a long time in an unemployed persons life even if its not that long for a nationwide project.....

national leaving NZ to market forces - this should please some

the cycleway is embarrassing for the govt but only one aspect of their tenure that causes me concern

the osession with urgency when its not needed crippling debate and discussion

where is the media - seems its only the bloggers taking ay notice

I worry about the harm this govt are and could very well do our nation and for the first time in my life wished I lived somewhere else

Isn't that that natural cycle of things? National come in on big talk of change and then proceed to fuk everything up so Labour can come back in and fix it all up for them, only to then have national re-elected because ugh...'its time for a change'.

overreact much?

Labour had massive surpluses and managed to tie the country up in bureaucracy . Their answer would have been to raise net taxes.

Fuck knows what you are talking about with lack of big change in the past but i would argue that NZ needs less of the past way of doing which was ambush politics where things were forced through before the unions/opposition/public could complain. Look at the employment and deregulation issues. Huge shit fights and chicken littling and they worked out well after a few years of change.

NZ and the rest of the world needs some degree of stability at the moment. We certainly need to be spending a hell of a lot less than we could under labours term.

If you are happy dealing with small sound bites, labour helped create a

a... a.... a wot

come on man don't leave us hanging

hrm, not sure what happened there.

and i cant remember what i was going to say...

Something anti labour anyway.

Yup it is so hard to do business in NZ, woe is them struggling under the weight of bureaucracy...

http://www.doingbusiness.org/exploreeconomies/?economyid=140

Haven't you got that entirely the wrong way around?

Labour spent almost an entire decade shafting our economy through inaction. National are trying to right it as well as catch up on the missed opportunity of the most prosperous decade globally ever in which we slid further and further behind relative to our peers.

Feel free to imagine it all away though if it suits your ideology.

In about five years it'll be clearer just how much of a waste of space they were in overall lack of economic influence. People just don't seem to fathom yet just how much Labour failed in this area.

schoolgirls like him
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10629583
"He's such an inspirational role-model," gushed one. "He's so cool," was another star-struck accolade.

It is a crying shame labour blew it for our nation... those nine years of hell are now over

and we can all cycle to work on the legacy national are now building

or jeezus rob change the fucking record - its stuck

Bob... the record isn't stuck. It's just obvious people look at happenings as a now thing and don't consider the tracking/path of things like GDP compared to people we like (Aus for example) and our ability to pay for things we take for granted like healthcare, education etc.

The economic outlook is very hard for the average man to appreciate in his day to day life because they're such on-going and long-term things they hardly seem to matter at an individual level. Labour did tons of good for NZ in other areas - I'd never deny that at all. But they dropped the ball badly in the area which is all-but invisible to most but which has the key long-term significance on our ability to pay for retirement, healthcare, education etc and keep as many things we take for granted as being free that way.

If you were a fast growing company, produced high-tech goods or wanted to employ specialists or export your services then yes, they sucked. These are the people who risk their lot for an idea or piece of technology etc but who get little love in return by way of tax-breaks, incentives, support (relative to Aus, Can, US etc which is what matters when we're trying to keep the brightest lights here for long-term benefit).

These people paid a disproportionately high chunk of the country's running costs - education, police, healthcare etc - they're the small or low-level companies/employers who represent the best chance of raising our lot long-term and yet were the exact people who were consistently ignored or, worse, effectively punished so the rest of the country could have it easier. It was simply unsustainable and no-one has a leg to stand on if they criticise the current govt for trying to balance the inequity of our tax system and keep the non-productive people happy at the same time. Most governments around the world would just say: healthcare is cut 10%, benefits are cut 10%. Don't like it? Tough bikkies.

The fact that Michael Cullen could keep a straight face when he spoke publicly about our economy during the final years of his tenure shows how out of touch with the world he was. All the average person heard was: "Government has a surplus" like it was some well-managed bank account which deserved kudos.

in the context of CA/biggie its a stuck record - no average man round these parts either I'd wager

it is good you're pointing out all the flaws of the pervious govt - now could you please tell us what our current govt is doing to encourage our return to form?

must be all that R&D tax breaks and the like yes?

can't wait to see what the research on animal emissions announced today finds - animals fart?

Fuck this is actually hilarious.

You and fish_boy are the two most blinkered, one-eyed, ideologicaly motivated, partisan hacks I've ever come across in NZ

Gummi... I think you'll find Fishboy is a devout leftie but I'm not a rightie through and through at all. I am totally for many of Labour's policies/ideas which the right aren't into - but definitely not their economic efforts which basically amounted to ignoring them at the expense of popularist things like benefits, education etc which are much easier for the public to latch onto. Reality is those things cost money.. which has to come from somewhere eventually.

I'm just trying to even up Biggie heavy left leanings with a dose of wake-the-f**k up and smell the roses before you think Labour wasn't dropping the ball badly in this area. We can't keep paying for things if the earnings relative to costs is going backwards. Either we make more money, or cut back on costs. This govt is attempting a middle-ground with a little on both sides. Kudos to them for trying to find a balance as popularist as it may seem to hard-core economists like Brash etc.

Bob - re: R&D tax breaks. Don't make jokes about it. We were so far behind our OECD competitors in that respect it's sort of like a criminal complaining he got 25 years in jail when he hoped for 24.5. The difference is negligible and all-but irrelevant in the overall scheme of things. R&D was no grand industry here that has had the carpet ripped out from under it.

no grand industry Rob but its not even going to be a tin pot one if R&D isn't supported, which seem to be the current case

we have a govt that doesn't believe in science

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/27359154/US-and-Global-Economic-Volatility

"The world's per capita annual GDP increase fell from 3.6% during the 1960s, to 2.1% during the 1970s, to 1.3% during the 1980s to 1.1% during the 1990s and 1% during the 2000s." (figures for 2000s as at 2005).

we're saved thanks to our mineral wealth!!!!

good times ahead for all

not so Bob not so. One NZ company listed on the exchange that is supposed to be extracting coal from the West Coast (DOC land) is fucking it up so badly.....

we don't get royalties out of that carbuncle in waihi either

they may just have nailed the seabed and foreshore thang, if what I've read today is on the money

if so nice one national... still think you're dicks though

http://www.nzonscreen.com/title/close-up-big-dealers-john-key-1987

love the shorts John

and the longs weren't bad too

from the herald today
"peaking after a three hour cabinet meeting this afternoon, Mr Key said he was "awe-struck"

I bet 'e was

I really thought JK was a bit more tactful than this. Perhaps it says more about his relationship than his diplomatic skills

Meanwhile, the Apec "silly shirt" tradition for leaders was to be extended to spouses this year.

Bronagh Key was measured for a kimono designed by Japanese fashion maestro Hiroko Koshino. John Key was not sure how his wife would look.

"If they have Bronagh versus Michelle Obama, she [Bronagh] will look like the Hobbit," he said, referring to the difference in height between the two first ladies.

guys a tard... with severe obama worship - embarrassing how it is playing out in the media, lucky for him most people only read headlines and don't think (though the media are engaging on a much more critical path with regards to our smiling photo op PM)

from question time

Heard what I would rate as B3 information that JK has had at least one affair in his life... with a substantially younger woman

I heard he had a forked tongue and a barbed tail... or was it a barbed tongue and a forked tail? Anyway, I heard it from a friend of a friend.

Theres lots of even more specific rumours about certain politicians. Just look at the ones around Helen. Also, personality types who are predisposed to politics are also predisposed to infidelity.

Infidelity and political ability would seem to be linked so maybe we should be more forgiving.

I like the way we geneally don't intrude on our politicans private lives... or at least didn't

http://thestandard.org.nz/armstrong-on-the-constitutional-review/

right wing idiots railed against labour in the same rabid way... now its left wing idiots against national.

I do notice however that the left-wingers tactics are increasingly like American politics.. Asking the question at the end is a common FOX thing isnt it?

People accused Labour of the nanny state.

actually the right had a lot less to rage against, imo - lightbulbs, the PMs sexuality a forged signature and other nation breaking things

surely you have something more concrete to say than to resort to grammatical attacks

How about a chicken little attack?

Democracy. National was voted in and will get voted out if people dont like what they do.

National and Labour are the same except slight either side of center. They each justify their actions against what the other has done. Maybe its just the people I spend time with but I hear so much more bleating from the left than the right (though I try and stay away from the rabid on either flank.



I don't have a problem with serious criminals losing the right to vote, they have lost their freedom in other ways too. It makes more sense to let kids vote than criminals.

the fact the criminals can't vote thing violates basic democratic principles, violates our Bill of Rights Act and violates international law.

makes for poltiical pints scoring only (of which both sides engage with no interest in solutions to the problem of crime)

I agree with you over nat and labour at present - I am pleased to see labour inferring they'll move to a more traditional platform (ie of the left not neoliberalism) as that would suit my personal political leanings way more than the endless rearranging of the middle ground to suit whatever party is in power

still think this govt has behaved badly and have abused their power in many instances where it need not have been - ie they'd have got the result they wanted just with a tad more effort (would have been better for their PR machine to I suggest)

as public opinion and the media start to turn on them we're going to see a bewildered National and pleasantly stunned labour wander aimlessly into various headlights on election year (should be fascinating for all witnesses)

can't budget

ACC

and what next pre xmas cheer from our beloved leader

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4582922/Key-reveals-plan-for-asset-sales

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr + lots of fist shaking

now he's talking to Veitch (of all people) about hot chicks.
Does Bronagh need self-defence classes

How is saying someone is hot, sexist?

I didnt say it was (although obviously its objectification)
its just tacky and unbecoming of a leader and statesman

it is completely unbecoming ... especially considering who he was chatting with

good to see our leader is prepared to speak with Veitch each week having bailed on the student stations and having only given 3 (I think it is) interviews to Radio NZ

I feel sorry for his wife...


massive FAIL, though only to those of us who don't think objectifying woman to a known woman basher is wrong on every level

oh christ Goff had to comment didn't he - Key I get it, he's a boorish oaf... Goff is meant to be a enlightened member of the left.. no excuses.. what a dick

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4609295/PM-stands-by-hot-Hurley-comments

FFS what century is this again?

Storm in a tea cup? What exactly do you expect of our members of parliament? Especially you BD you seem to have the least opinion of them and are all up in arms over the type of comments I'm sure you would make.

Who gives a rats arse, look at other politicians around the world and stop complaining.

I give a rats arse bob, because I actually care about who runs our country and how they run it

I believe politicans should lead as they pretend and should be role models for the citizens who entrust them to do so

I don't expect them to emulate a bunch of teenage boys who don't know any better

still smile and waive... is that what NZ is to aspire to?

haha

So you want an uptight conservative who keeps his sexual desires locked up in a dungeon?

I find it quite refreshing and I have seen lots of females on TV lately saying how much they love Sonny Bill. Its no different.

Key is not a career politician and that is part of his appeal. Goff, in emulating shows that he has calculated most people dont agree with you. I for one dont expect our leaders to be squeaky clean (same with the police) and building them up to be perfect is only going to hide the behaviour not make it absent.

The other thing is that I bet you would be happy if they smoked some weed eh.

um a desire for the PM not to rate woman based on their looks whilst being interviewed by a man of Tony Veitch's reputation is hardly a desire to see someone lock their sexuality or desires in a dungeon...

I don't expect our MPs nor leaders to be squeaky clean... but neither do I expect them to behave like a league player

I care not if our elected officials smoke weed - if they do I expect them to not lie about it... nor giggle like school girls about it (refer to MPs when Nandor entered govt - esp labour, so embarrassing)

there is a HUGE difference between what we can and should expect from our Prime Minister and Sonny Bill (he's the sports guy yes?)

Meh.. this is a storm in a tea cup. No harm done unless you're the type already poised to pounce on any word/utterance/misstep made by Key as evidence of his unsuitability to be PM.

Lol at Goff commenting like he's some pillar of common sense. He still thought his daughter had/has never taken drugs - after she already admitted it in court.

I guess I'm that type...

nothing nearly as serious as art forgery as practised by our last leader, eh Rob

Wearing a Power Balance bracelet is usually an indication of incompetence to me...

incompetence or a lack of intellect?

Now the bracelet action is a 'storm in a tea cup' if it gains any traction as a news story or sign of anything

pretty annoyed that he uses the speech in Australian parliament to plug the TPP

http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10733397

and now mouthing off about the US economy
just before he goes there....
oh dear

why wouldn't he?

seems an inappropriate place to plug a contentious issue - its not an election speech. he spoke about it as if it was a foregone conclusion.

it's a matter of contemporary mutual interest between our two nations, surely, and as such, worthy of mention in the forum which he presented it in?

yeah its not like he's going to discuss with us the voting public

far more important he talks to his stakeholders

#anyonebutus

Mr Key and Mr Medvedev met during the Asia Pacific Economic Co-operation leaders meeting in Yokohama, Japan, last November.

They sat next to each other at a dinner, during which Mr Key asked the Russian how long it would take for a missile to reach NZ from Moscow.

Mr Medvedev reportedly quipped: "Twenty-two minutes, but I'll ring you beforehand."

Voting public are stakeholders in everything the Govt does.

That's what stakeholders are: anyone who is involved with, or can be affected by an organisation/Govt's operation.

I think you missed my point rob - national does not act like we the public are stakeholders in anything

christ they want us to buy that which we already own

madness

but the really ironic thing is if you gave everybody their share of a SOE that was listed, they'd sell it either the day it listed or if not then, as soon as the price went up 50c

The situation with the bid was a “complex position,” he said.

When asked what was complex about the bid, Key replied:

“You’ll to go and ask the Overseas Investment Office that.”

When then asked whether the OIO had told him the bid was complex, he said:

“No, they don’t brief me on what they do.”

Asked then how he knew it was complex, Key replied:

“Well, I just know everything in that area is complex.”

don't worry be happy

i thought flippany was frowned on in this area

I'd suggest any post should applauded

and can you fault my previous post? Or are you denying the aspirational quality of kiwis and our glorious leader

its not what you have its what you aspire to that matters in this land

hold on I take it back, bombers running the same line http://tumeke.blogspot.com/2011/09/memo-to-john-key-dont-worry-be-happy.html

be happy and shut up