IDF were killing civilians - troops

The soldier was quoted as saying that the rabbis had “brought in a lot of booklets and articles,” adding, “their message was very clear: We are the Jewish people, we came to this land by a miracle. God brought us back to this land, and now we need to fight to expel the non-Jews who are interfering with our conquest of this holy land.”

Theres idiots on both sides

In the end, the haunting question is whether the war crimes concerns raised by Israel’s behaviour in Gaza matters, and if so, how. I believe it matters greatly in what might be called “the second war” – the legitimacy war that often ends up shaping the political outcome more than battlefield results. The US won every battle in the Vietnam war and lost the war; the same with France in Indochina and Algeria, and the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. The Shah of Iran collapsed, as did the apartheid regime in South Africa, because of defeats in the legitimacy war.

It is my view that this surfacing of criminal charges against Israel during and after its attacks on Gaza resulted in major gains on the legitimacy front for the Palestinians. The widespread popular perceptions of Israeli criminality, especially the sense of waging war against a defenceless population with modern weaponry, has prompted people around the world to propose boycotts, divestments and sanctions. This mobilisation exerts pressure on governments and corporations to desist from relations with Israel, and is reminiscent of the worldwide anti-apartheid campaign that did so much to alter the political landscape in South Africa. Winning the legitimacy war is no guarantee that Palestinian self-determination will be achieved in the coming years. But it does change the political equation in ways that are not fully discernable at this time.

The global setup provides a legal framework capable of imposing international criminal law, but it will not be implemented unless the political will is present. Israel is likely to be insulated from formal judicial initiatives addressing war crimes charges, but will face the fallout arising from the credibility that these charges possess for world public opinion. This fallout is reshaping the underlying Israel/Palestine struggle, and giving far greater salience to the legitimacy war (fought on a global political battlefield) than was previously the case.

Hamas et al wouldn't exisit if not for the nut bars of Israel and their policies of genocide

I'm not so sure, Palestinian terrorism exists because Israel exists.

In the same way that hamas is a product of israeli actions israeli fundamentalists are a product of arab aggression.

By the same token arab nationalism existed before 'israel'.

There was no 'start' it has been a conflict zone for human history.

Last week Human Rights Watch wrote to European Union foreign ministers calling for an international inquiry into war crimes in Gaza. In the case of Israel, the organisation cited the siege of Gaza as a form of collective punishment; the use of artillery and white phosphorus in densely populated civilian areas, including schools; the shooting of civilians holding white flags; attacks on civilian targets; and "wanton destruction of civilian property".

Israel and others also accuse Hamas of war crimes. But while both Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have echoed that charge, particularly in relation to the indiscriminate rocketing of towns such as Sderot, an exhaustive investigation by Human Rights Watch has found no evidence, for example, of Hamas using human shields in the clearly defined legal sense of coercion to protect fighters in combat. And as Richard Falk, the UN Special Rapporteur on Palestinian Human Rights, argued recently, any attempt to view the two sides as "equally responsible" is an absurdity: one is a lightly-armed militia, effectively operating underground in occupied territory – the other the most powerful army in the region, able to pinpoint and pulverise targets with some of the most sophisticated weaponry in the world.

There is of course no chance that the UN security council will authorise the kind of International Criminal Court war crimes indictment now faced by Sudan's leaders over Darfur. Any such move would certainly be vetoed by the US and its allies. And Israel's own courts have had no trouble in the past batting away serious legal challenges to its army's atrocities in the occupied territories. But the use of universal jurisdiction in countries such as Spain or even Britain is making Israeli commanders increasingly jumpy about travelling abroad.

With such powerful evidence of violations of the rules of war now emerging from the rubble of Gaza, the test must be this: is the developing system of international accountability for war crimes only going to apply to the west's enemies – or can the western powers and their closest allies also be brought to book?

I highly doubt it as Gaza/Palestine is not recognised as a state therefore they have not breached international law.

The ICC prosecutor initially dismissed the Palestinians' appeals to the ICC, saying he could not build a case against Israel as it is not a signatory of the Treaty of Rome. However, he said he was reexamining the possibility of launching an investigation against Israel after the Palestinian Authority submitted documents it said proved Palestine was a legal state with the right to request such a probe.


The Rome Statute that created the ICC determines that only a state could accept the court's jurisdiction for such an investigation to be launched.

International law is very much based around the state. Because Gaza is not a recognized 'state' it means that they are not protected by international law.

Well that's a bucket of ass then isn't it!

I dont think that is correct entirely - they cant make a submission to the court. Israel can be brought in front of it.

it is not even close to simple... this is complicated shit

Even Hamas can't prevent the attacks, for example - they have tried and managed during the ceasfire to seriously reduce them but not stop them outright - there are many factions fighting for power in the occupied territories - many whom hate each other as much as they hate the jews/isrealis

Hamas are a bunch of freaking loons that have no desire for peace and as long as they exist there will never be peace.

bit like Scientology really.

Well that's a bucket of ass then isn't it!