Grant Fox, Andrew Mehrtens, or Dan Carte

r?

I think it's actually a pretty interesting comparison.

1. Grant Fox - the perfect winner. Holds world record for points in a World Cup. Probably the best pure goal kicker of the three considering the ball technology of the time. Shocking runner, poor tackler, but he was more than just a goalkicker. His tactical kicking was off the charts, he had the best bomb of the three, and his option-taking was superb. It wasn't by chance that his outsides (e.g. Kirwan, Stanley, Tuigamala) scored a shedload of tries. Also played in a period where, in general, the game was a little more low-scoring. Most important of all, brought the ABs back whenever they were down, which I rank VERY highly.

2. Andrew Mehrtens - a perfect bridge between Fox and Carter. Useful runner but atrocious tackler. Very good kicker both tactical and goal. Possibly the best passer of the three and possibly even the best option taker. He was the first five during the golden age of ABs try scoring, and it was his passing that enabled Cullen, Wilson, and Lomu to score so many tries. Remember, he didn't have great distributing midfield backs for a lot of that period. Masterminded the greatest AB performance of the past 20 years, the 43-6 pasting of the Wallabies at Athletic Park in 1996.

3. Dan Carter - the most athletically gifted of the three by a long shot. Great runner, great tackler, booming punts, top notch goalkicking. Not the same mentally, and doesn't take over games in the same way as Fox or Mehrtens. Doesn't show bottle bringing back the team from a losing position (then again, Mehrts also failed when it counted in that regard.) It's interesting that players like Joe Rokocoko saw their scoring rate dip dramatically when Carter took over from Carlos Spencer. I don't think his passing is that good and his option taking is usually not optimum.

In my view... it comes down to Mehrtens vs. Fox. I think Mehrtens has a tiny, tiny edge in measurables, but I think Fox's world cup trophy tilts the balance and makes him the greatest first five of ABs history, and thus of all rugby of all time.

Remember: athletes aren't necessarily the best sportsmen.

This is a little hard cos Carter is the only one whose career isnt over. I dont share your belief that trophies = measuring stick for excellence either. Do agree that Fox was highly instrumental in many victories that would have almost certainly gone the other way if Frano Botica wore 10

1. Fox
2. Merts/Carter

Mehrtens is still playing, btw.

Well it's the tiebreaker cos to me it's
1. Fox/Mehrtens
2. Carter

So the RWC has to be the differentiator.

All rugby of all time?

I think South Africns might argue that Joel Stransky would be up there.

Errr... Naas Botha

And what about Steyne, the guy is a freak, and unless we cap the fucker he'll win SAF the WC here next year :/

Errr... Naas Botha

And what about Steyne, the guy is a freak, and unless we cap the fucker he'll win SAF the WC here next year :/

Carter, assuming he finishes his career on his own terms (ie. not injured) will be the greatest 1st 5 in All Black history, without a doubt imo. Definitely the most complete player and he is on track to blitz the rest in terms of his stats. Wil need to get a WC though I guess.

Nah.. DC for sure.

then why did Lomu/Wilson/Cullen score more tries per game than Carter's outsides? Why did Joe R go from 1+ try a game with Carlos to 1 try every 3 games under DC?

If stats matter then surely we can say that Rob Andrew and that Irish flyhalf or the welsh one are world class too then?

They are world-class, and of course stats matter (though rugby stats are limited). In simplest terms, DC is on track to beat Jonny Wilkinson on points in way less games. That speaks volumes.

Because the game changed? Wingers in general scored less tries. Again, you know this.

Plus.. Carlos wasn't stuck with Nonu as 2nd receiver. Haha..

Mehrtens would be my pick of the three. Ridiculous kicking game, good wide passer, deceptive pace and a great rugby brain. And he pretty much singlehandedly pulled Canterbury rugby out of the doledrums.

I would choose Mehrtens.

Was always a huge Mehrtens fan. He's a saffa you know...

O'Garra is not world class, Stephen Jones at a stretch maybe... IMO world class doesn't mean playing on the international stage, it's means you are among the top 2-3 in the world in your position.

I went for Stansky because he out performed Mehrts in a World Cup Final. Whereas Botha didn't play anywhere near enough test rugby to be considere the greatest due to apartheid, not denying he was great but if you can't get to the party no ones going to remember you.