Got a dollar?

I have a question, or a topic for discussion.
It's becoming more and more common for people on the street to ask you for money. It fucking pisses me off. That's my immediate raw reaction.

I'm wondering though, what is happening here? Are more and more people truly desperate or are just more and more people fucktards who look at others as targets to sap? I kinda tend to think it's far more of the latter than the former even though people are more desperate... I'm not sure they always the same people asking for money on the streets though. Some sort of parallel culture where it's been normalised to bug people walking by? And why?

Have more thoughts on it but I just want to see what insights, attitudes and thoughts are here (among other things).

Used to be a twence...

Got a twence bro?

dude, if life bothers you so much, you should really just stay home...

Just blame jonkey

People like neil do

Just give me some bro.



I just wanna have it, is that so wrong?

just ask them if they take Eftpos

Why should I stay home? I'm minding my own business, walking down the street.

I'm just wondering if its prevalence is a symptom of actual poverty now, or a previous generations poverty making certain behaviors learned and therefore normal or just um... scumbags. The scumbags bit just sounds like some middle class git writing people off with no understanding and no want to understand of what got us here, but... that's kind of how I feel about people that ask for money. I'd find it shameful to ask a passer by for money. Perhaps I'm just privileged and conditioned though (I don't feel fucking privileged btw...).

Got asked for 50p from a fairly tidy looking man outside a betting shop last night. Told him to get help. Continued walking.

It's so common over here its ridiculous. My favourite one is being approached by a 'distressed' woman asking for money for the tube. They always seem rather sheepish when you offer them a travel card.

What amazes me with people that ask for a $1, is that they rather embarrass themselves by asking strangers for money than trying to get a job.

There are plenty of reasons why people might beg,

but everyone in the thread just seems so far up their own ass to bother thinking about the world around them.

Somebody asks you for a dollar, don't be a cunt. Buy them a snickers bar.

... there are beggars in a suburb in Auckland who are violent and threatening to passersb-by and store owners
they can have a dollar's worth of lead

living in the CBD and working in the courts I can't avoid being asked for money on pretty much a daily basis

I probably give money about 50% of the time??

it would be a bit hard for me to give a total cold shoulder all the time, because of the above factors

but i don't think It would be right to always say yes, because it can breed a sense of entitlement (in some of them)

Well I think my thread is actually asking about the world around me. But I stuck my attitudes on the table too for analysis.
Wipeout, I don't think embarrassment even comes into it for those that ask.

They aren't all passive about asking for money either.

YEAH THEY SHOULD JUST GET A JOB. LAZY FUCKS.

I did have to laugh at the guy I saw a few months back trying to blag $15 off passers-by. Not because he needed to get a taxi home or anything.....but because he wanted to get into the club. Seriously

But yeah, people clearly a lot worse off than yourself, begging for a mere dollar? Yeah fuck them they should just get jobs. Getting a job is easy and everyone is in a position to do so. Glad we're all clear on that.

lolz kris :> There was one guy who used to beg for $$ outside the dairy near the corner of K'Rd and East St who I would give some $$ to when I could.

Had to laugh when I rocked into Supper early one morning to see him outside in the corner sipping on a Heineken (not even a common Amstel ffs!) :>

I just wanna have some of your money bro. Gimme!

The influx of these people is could be due to the massive lack of available free mental health services for those who really need it.

It's a sad and depressing sight.

Kris I can guarantee that at least one sub-set of beggars in a particular suburb ARE getting benefits but that doesn't stop them threatening passers by and store owners

We have an amazing social welfare system. Best in the world.

yeh I must be a cunt coz I have a rule in my head says no money for beggars.
living and workin in the city there are so many , I just cant respond.
happy to pay my taxes and let them get welfare if thats all they can manage.
for me charity begins at home, helping people around me , in my life.

+1

*Threatening behaviour against the public should be getting dealt with by appropriate authorities.
*Quite aware of how good our welfare system is thanks.

Still doesn't mean privileged white people should bitch and moan about it. I don't give in to beggars either, but I just say no and go about my day.

Sweden has the best welfare system in the world.

aha the annual I don't understand those less fortunate than myself so I must loathe them thread

empathy be damned

wah wah middle classes wail, unclean, uncoath people wah wah wah they're bringing me down wah wah wah

For all we know he picked up an abandoned drink in the bar or someone even purchased him one...

I need a dollar, dollar, a dollar is what I need. Hey hey.

I don't begrudge him either way mike

Not sure everyone asking for a dollar is some unfortunate sole.It's mildly offensive on some level that everyone who gets bugged is supposed to feel some great fucking guilt and empathy.

no one expects you to feel guilt smiley (for it may just be beyond you)... you can simply say no and carry on your way...

but I guess thats hard as you consider so many of them fucktards - ever thought of just stabbing one?

kill the poor!

kill the rich.... its not the poor complaining about beggars

have you ever considered the possibility that just maybe you are also a fucktard smiley?

See I can't argue here because if I say I consider them fucktards because I'd NEVER bug strangers for money (and there have been times that it might have been much more helpful than say, walking several kms home in the rain) because the moment I say that you can counter with I just wouldn't know what it's like blah blah blah.

I think you'll find no one wants to bug strangers for money and I doubt anyone really wants to see people bugging/begging for money - well excusing the charity people, whom we really should be doing something about (refer to social welfare system)

I'd hope that no one has to experience what its like... but considering what it might be like could just temper your hatred for those asking for money - refer to empathy

What's needed is a wider perspective, what's happening here is a reflection of changes in society. By and large our social system trains us to be indifferent to the suffering of others in public when we don't know them. The expression of disgust is simply a stronger manifestation of indifference, becasue these people have not only shown you their povety, they have entered your world and challenged you to do something about it. As much as we'd all love to live life in a bubble, being a participant in society continuously violates those safe boundaries for us. It's one thing to feel some unease about that, but to expect sympathy for our plight when we are not the one who is actually suffering, is another.

Takes one to know one...

You know in my OP when I said "other stuff?" I was anticipating your usual vitriolic but non-insighful response. How does it feel to be so predictable?

Hey I'm all empathy. I DON'T think some of these people are too bothered about asking strangers for money. Perhaps they are just hardened to it or perhaps they have grown up with a different attitude towards such things. I have my own issues and I have my own charities...

I don't feel disgust. I'm not even sure that we are talking about the same people here.

That happens heaps here .. especially out West.. chicks do it all the time ask for money for the bus/train.. when people offer a ride they start verbally abusing.. delightful.

yeah I was pretty unimpressed to see some little cow walking up to people and blocking their path for "bus money".

....Poor disenfranchised girl eh...

wah wah wah someone intruded on my life as I waited for the bus or something wha wah wah I shall now judge them wah wah wah cause I really do care about me wah wah wah she asked for money wah wah wah I don't know her story but I'll jump to conclusions anyway wah wah wah and she was ugly wah wah wah

smiley do you need a hug?

I started a thread asking what people suppose has happened here with the increase of people asking for fucking money on the street. So you either get "should just get a job bro" replies or bleeding heart high and mighty moralistic bullshit replies.

Why don't you write us an example of the type of reply you would have liked, so we can make note for the future?

You wanted what, a flow of "YES SMILEY, YOU ARE EXACTLY CORRECT GOOD SIR I AGREE WITH YOUR HYPOTHESIS THAT THIS PHENOMENON IS INCREASING!"?


Because that's just silly.

this thread is done at least once a year smiley.... you don't want serious answers for a few minutes taking notice of whats happening in NZ and the wider world would suggest very quickly that people are increasingly finding it hard to cope financially

we have over 200,000 kids living in poverty (so that suggests their caregivers are too), wages are stagnant, the tax cuts didn't help most and the cost of living has exploded... unemployment is high - especially amongst the young, many lost all their savings to finance companies, our care in the community mental health regime isn't working..... etc etc etc

in short people might be asking for money on the street because they are struggling to make ends meet - many do even in the good times

but thats not what you want to hear, judging by your posts you want to belittle and denigrate those 'begging' so don't be surprised if people, like myself, respond as they do

Say please and I'll give them money everytime if not they get nothing.

You'd be surprised how few ever say please though.

Jono, can I please have a dollar?
Jono, can I please have a dollar?
Jono, can I please have a dollar?
Jono, can I please have a dollar?
Jono, can I please have a dollar?
Jono, can I please have a dollar?
Jono, can I please have a dollar?

Sorted, got me a free bevvy

does it work if its over a dollar?

Spaceworld!

I'd rather someone asked me for a dollar on the street, than trying to wash my window at the traffic lights for a buck. Them fullas = definitely fucktards.

no no minxie, you heartless bitch, they are poor downtrodden yet amazingly entrepreneurial beacons that should inspire us all.

haha how can you hate on the window cleaners... they're pretty much *always* in a good mood, they'll clean your window even if you tell 'em you got no $$...

Fuck you guys are a bunch of grumpy cunts

I once almost gave money to gummi_bear because he came over on a cold night and didn't have any shoes. :>

Didn't even have to ask me!

Bare feet are fkn sexy AMIRITE? :>

Well I'm really just playing into the stereotype created for me now... may as well.

I'm a bit sceptical about tying up everyone else's tougher financial times on begging for money. I think it's way more complicated than that. There is a culture change too.

On the streets of Philly (philippines), the only people that ever really ask for money are little children. And when their parents would hear them they would tell them off. Oh.. and also either extremely old homeless or paralyzed.

I used to give money out quite a lot.

I thought you were about to do a Bel Air.

i have actually that song stuck in my head since i posted that

I like this thread..reading it over has made me think maybe I will think before just shaking my head...there is one oldish guy who hangs around my office building...I avoided him after he came up to me and started shouting "intercourse" at me..now I just smile at him because Ive seen how the snooty office people in my work builing glare at him. Maybe next time Ill shout him a scone but wont give him money because hes around all the time so might expect it. I would rather give money to older homeless types than young ones...there are opportunities for free study and things like that, that young people can use to better their situations.. Its hard for me to understand the mentality of the physically and mentally abled young people who dont seem to give it everything they can to better their lives....

I like this thread..reading it over has made me think maybe I will think before just shaking my head...there is one oldish guy who hangs around my office building...I avoided him after he came up to me and started shouting "intercourse" at me..now I just smile at him because Ive seen how the snooty office people in my work builing glare at him. Maybe next time Ill shout him a scone but wont give him money because hes around all the time so might expect it. I would rather give money to older homeless types than young ones...there are opportunities for free study and things like that, that young people can use to better their situations.. Its hard for me to understand the mentality of the physically and mentally abled young people who dont seem to give it everything they can to better their lives....

Mental health issues are rife in the homeless community, for young and old.

But yeah, they should clearly just get a job/get a degree or whatever and stop being such a sack of useless cunts...

Bob is harmless really, he likes cheese scones for future reference..

I'm kind of with Jono, if people ask politely and have the money I'll give it. With the advent of the hop card there are quite often times when I genuinely have no money on me though.

I would recommend you don't travel too much overseas smiley, it's going to be tough for you. I have noticed it has become more prevalent in Auckland but compared with cities of comparable size in other countries, I don't think it's bad.

of course its more complicated... but generally... tough economic times, poor mental health care, decreasing social welfare (or at least making it harder for those that need help to get it) , unemployment, drug addiction (refer P), etc etc are all factors that may play a part in someones life which could lead to begging

the culture change is we blame the bggers for their plight... not the society that allows citizens to beg - we're better than that, or at least I thought we were

there is no need, except through choice, for people to live rough and need to beg (for whatever reasons) in our country

this is our collective failing and virtually no leaders (business or govt) give a flying fuck and won't until we the voters demand a more caring inclusive society.... but selfishness and greed rule so expect things to get worse

I agree with all that.

I still get annoyed because I just don't like people getting in my face and because I'm not in any position to give money away.

Take a couple of steps to the left, then you would have changed position. Maybe stand on one foot?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCbU_11hx8Y&t=0m51s

:>

Then the question arises, Why are beggars despised?--for they are
despised, universally. I believe it is for the simple reason that they fail
to earn a decent living. In practice nobody cares whether work is useful or
useless, productive or parasitic; the sole thing demanded is that it shall
be profitable. In all the modem talk about energy, efficiency, social
service and the rest of it, what meaning is there except 'Get money, get it
legally, and get a lot of it'? Money has become the grand test of virtue.
By this test beggars fail, and for this they are despised. If one could
earn even ten pounds a week at begging, it would become a respectable
profession immediately. A beggar, looked at realistically, is simply a
businessman, getting his living, like other businessmen, in the way that
comes to hand. He has not, more than most modem people, sold his honour; he
has merely made the mistake of choosing a trade at which it is impossible
to grow rich.”

Coincidentally after reading this thread last night, the bbc podcast 'down and out in paris and london' was in my podcast list.. Not so much as changed since Orwell's book. Worth a listen.

(Fri Oct 7)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/docarchive/all

I'd suggest part of the reason they are despised by some as they are a very visual reminder of where through bad luck, poor choices, a lack of (your own) a support network and/or an untimely accident (etc) anyone could end up - a sobering in your face reminder of the failures of our society

Everyone throws stones at the village drunk, or the lame child.

In a consumer world where everything is for pleasure the beggar shows us an image of the dark side of consumption - the inability to consume - which is horrifying, nauseating and disgusting because they are an image of displeasure and the failure to consume. They are thus a threat to social order (becasue they don't fit that order, and their mere presence is a challenge to it) so they must be gotten rid off

Key admits underclass still growing

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10759869

The Government has slashed the number of food grants to needy families by 20 per cent, driving record numbers to seek food parcels from charities instead

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10759870

Jesus Christ, I get this pseudo-intellectual bollocks at school. I know it must be fun to conceptualise (I've never found it fun because it's generally fucking bullshit) the problem and also take some moralistic high ground where you get to say people despise beggars and you include the homeless and desperate with the idiots on the street who just want money into one convenient bundle just like you do with anybody who complains about the problem but lets get this straight:
Not everyone asking for money is some down and out bum with nowhere to turn. What I'M getting pissed off with is the rising culture of people asking for money simply because people are there to be asked. NOT those who are sitting on the street for one reason or another. For that I'm annoyed at our shitty society as a whole.

what rising culture of people just asking for money because there are people there to ask?

People finding times tough can correlate to a perceived increase in people asking for money - but asking for the sake of it, I'm not so sure of

To ask a stranger for a dollar in public you've got to get yourself past the shame barrier. Shame is a very powerful emotion because it challenges our sense of self, in which case the motive has be even stronger - such as desperation.
Maybe Smiley thinks the motive is simply one of aggression - it's a way to hassle people for the sake of it

No, I understand that, I just think you are projecting your own sensibilities.

Well your original post hypothesises (normalised) aggression as the driving motive

I'd rather someone ask me for $$ in the street than have to endure billboards everywhere I look

Not my sensibility, the way I'm talking about shame comes from Giddens who has probably drawn from research in social psychology and anthropology

Well you may feel shame asking for money only if you think it's shameful to ask for money... Is that some universal human trait rather than something we learn from our surroundings?

Apparently those walking down the street don't see asking those for money as people and that is what is wrong with us; perhaps those asking for money don't see others as people either.

shame is a learned response and shame wears off- the more you do something the less it seems wrong or odd... refer to all sales people (the shameless fuckers)

actually I hate those people that come to your house (usually selling net connection)... they fuck me off no end with their aggressive sales techniques of not selling and the way they won't take: no thnak you, no, no now fuck off as means to stop their delivery... even slamming the door in their face seems not to phase them

you want to bag salespeople smiley, I'm with ya... in fact I'm ahead of ya

Shame is cultural and it is rooted very deep in our psyche. People may seem without shame but they are still affected by it - it separates them from others in some way, it marks them as deviant, and they know it. Even if they think they don't care they still pay a social price, and they will be aware of that.

Shame Smiley. :>

What am I shamed about here?

Begging has gotten worse in recent times.... but not where you'd expect it.

Twice I've been asked for money by who look to be a couple of 18yr old girls right outside 1885 where you're about to turn the corner into the entry row. I've been with people each time and one of us has asked what for..... They say "we don't have any money for a drink". Last time we offered to buy them a drink in the bar but they declined - because they weren't sure if they could get in or not - they looked pretty drunk already.

The state of some people in town these days has gotten out of control imo. If someone really needs money why not give them a buck or two? But when they are just taking the mickey - so they can get smashed with their mates... should be sent to a 3rd world country for a few days to see people in need.

Shame on your name!

God I hope my daughter doesn't end up being a fkng pleb idiot like that. The drinking culture of the youngins is disgusting.. I mean I did some dumb stuff but nothing compared to them.

Yup.... when you consider they're wearing what look like designer clothes as well it's a pretty sad look.

gave 2 dollars recently to two girls who allegedly needed bus money to get home to South Auckland, the response I got was "only two dollars? fuck! what a SAD guy!"

although the lack of gratitude, manners etc should not surprise - it's what I'm used to from the District Court!

That kinda illustrates what I'm talking about really.

costs more than two bucks to get far on a bus , and theres two of them

what kind of idiot goes to town without the money to get home again...

Hehehehe. You guys are funny.

I have not been approached by a begger in AGES, pop out a kid and hang out in the 'burbs and you don't need worry about it Smiley.

someone with frontal lobe damage.

true dat

I'm a cheap-ass, heh

actually I figured there would be another sucker just like me, further up the street, to make up the difference

... and why not make them "work" a bit for their money? giving them everything they need in one hit, is just not right!

good advice

being single, living in a CBD apartment, and working in the courts - is definitely NOT the way to avoid this type of shit!

Figured out another reason why I hate it so much, generally I don't have any change anyway, but saying so just sounds like I'm making an excuse.

If I actually do have change it's such a sought after oddity that I don't really want to give it up either though. *sigh*