GOD

who believes in god...even just a little?

i can't.

Not a fucking chance. *shudders*

Oi! This is a lounge thread! You sucked me in!

Hi Bee, Welcome to the wonderful land of Flipside

Can't say I believe in God, but I definately believe in something out there. I certainly want to go to a better place when I die, and hope all the ones that have gone before me, be there waiting.

Or I hope I get reincarnated

nope - never - na-ah - who?

sorry....live, die, turn 2 mush.

Enjoy it now eh?!!!

If you want to live on...I reckon you do so by other people remembering you.

Meet lots of people, be amazing, and influential.

Karma baby!

Yup. No heaven, no hell, no god, no devil, no reincarnation, no 'spirits', no lifeforce, nothing. (imho)

And I don't care to justify things as usually that just pisses people off. Religious wars are much nastier than genre wars. Especially when people try to argue with me about Satanism....

But........Satan is really bad!

religion is a waste of time - although i do like some of the ideas of buddism... but don't really know enough about it... but ive commented anyway

satan rules our lives though doesn't he? *jokes*

With a huge fleshy whip.

hehe true true true.....Religious wars are what will probably end this life for us!!!!


Voice : I guess you don't believe in Tarrot Cards, Fortune Tellers, Spirtialists, Healers, Witches, Karma, Superstition, then eh!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA

(Mixing a special spell for ya, stir stir stir)!!!

No, none of that crap. I am a humanist and a realist. (incidentally, that makes me close to a satanist, but we won't go there ah?)

PS: satanism is not a religion, for all you uneducated types.

*resists going into big spiel* Damn, religion posts trick me into wanting to write lots of stuff. That was mean Bee.

Typical male

what do you mean by 'God'?

it means different things for different people.

yep - chalk one up for the bee - lievers

yes .. i believe in AndyC..

belive in god, believe in satan...they go hand in
hand.

I dont beleive in a god, so therefore Satan does
not exist.

I reckon you could argue about this for ever! Personally I don't believe in god, but I respect everyones opinions about it.

I belive in some form of supreme guiding force.
But definitely not any god from an organised
religion. my thing (I don't know what the hell to
call it) is all my own, and everyone else's I
guess.
The supreme deity (if one does exist) requires
no mindless praise, no fiscal donations, no
control and no repentance. Just niceness.
I definitely think there's something out there, in
here though. Energy, goodwill, fairy dust,
whatever. I think there's something or other
watching out for me a little. Maybe it's my
Grampa. I dunno.
It's kind of nice to be able to tell someone about
one's ideas and beliefs, it's a pity people have to
always disagree on it... never mind, you believe
what you like and I'll do the same.
:0)

someone talking about me?

Nice words of wisdom Purplelollie

Hehe Rincess (You are my God Girl)

yeah baby!!!! I can make your world shine honey!!!

Our kids are gonna totally love each other. Kalib will teach Anabelle to find mermaid raves in the rocks!!!!

nice one thepurplelollie. i'm with you on this one

I think PurpleLollie is refering to the entire 'universe'.

heh.

That would be cool Rincess....

wwhhooooaaaaa... I feel an attack of
cosmic-ness coming on....... Might go read
Danjah's thread again. That'll cure the hippie in
me :0)

not me no way..
I'm 120% Atheist..
No offense to any of you religiuos people out there.. but how come every race as a different god??
If we really think about it.. wasn't supposed to be a only god who created earth and people..? if so how come there is Allah.. Buddha.. all those type of gods.. I think that people made up names just to b able in believin in somethin..
I have nothin against religiuos people.. but I think people believe in god coz low self-esteem..

I found god a year and a half ago................. 2 months later i lost him again. I was thinking about sticking his face on a milk carton, to attempt to track him down

I know what you mean..!!
it must be so hard for you right now!!
it's alright you can find anothr god between the other 300 gods around the face of the earth!!

But once you start believing in one god, you get 300 unhappy gods. It just not fair.

It pays just not to think about it.

maybe underneith it all they are all the same thing, even though the different races call 'it' by different names (they speak different languages, so of course the name is different).

anyway, *maybe* real presumptious of us to assume that we have a deep enough understanding of what the universe is, and then go on to say that god exists or doesn't exist. maybe we just don't have the capacity to understand the universe enough.

"we are a virus with shoes" - Bill Hicks

I understand what u r sayin rimu..
but how come peole describe god as a man why not a woman? as white person.. why not black or yellow etc?
so in the end I think that it all comes to low self-esteem of the people..

I'm a Panentheist!

Not quite low self esteem I think. I think it's different for different people. Some people are weak willed, and need to believe there is someone on their side, some people want an excuse for not performing to full potential, some people are jsut optimists and like to believe there is something awaiting them at the end.

I'm sure there are other reasons too.

rimu, makes a good point. The existence or lack fo existence of god is just not possible to prove. if someone ever says they have 'proof' one way or the other it is always possible to come up with a logical paradox/contradiction that negates the argument. Unfortunately, you can't argue with 'belief' - it's inherently irrational by definition.

We need a Metaphysics board now Biggie kru . . .

Hell, why not have one on abstract algebra too? Anyone want to discuss infinitessimals with me?

well, now that you mention it....

Seriously?

"Not quite low self esteem I think. I think it's different for different people. Some people are weak willed, and need to believe there is someone on their side, some people want an excuse for not performing to full potential, some people are jsut optimists and like to believe there is something awaiting them at the end."

hmm yeh.. but if you believe in nothing, there really is nothing to live for except to satisfy the primal instincts that keep us reproducing..

the need for religion comes with the higher conciousness we have developed, that we've risen above satisying natural urges and need to justify our existences with something more than simply existing

you could say that people who live for life's pleasures, looking down on religious people as weak willed or needy are in fact just living the lives of animals, instinct driven, primal and ultimately pointless

or something

Interesting thoughts there. I guess you're right, at least with reagrds to me. I view humans as merely aother animal (and a pretty fucking evil one too) but one with the unique capaciy for higher thought (as you say) and to undergo rational, deep and abstract analysis of problems and situations in order to make decisions. The ability to 'imagine', if you will.

However, I believe the application of this unique ability should be used in order to better ourselves in other ways, and that humans can get enjoyment from many things in life at a more abstract level than most animals. For one, our higher level of thinking alows us to gain enjoyment from aesthetics (and music!).

I don't think enjoying such tings like as, as "life's pleasures" is instinct driven really - but I do understand where you're coming from.

Religion often seems to be about denying that we are animals - about denying our place in the ecosystem, and about painting ourselves as fundamentally different. We developed from animals (uh oh, evoluton vs. creation?) ... we just developed extraordinarily. A quirk of nature?

Geeze you can babble voice

Babble? If you say so. What's your take on Toasted's post then ah?

Aww please Voice, give me more credit than giving a shit what anyone says on here eh!!!!

Who the hells Toasted anyway?????

I believe in a force out there greater than us, I'd would be stupid to believe we are the greatest beings out there, such a huge universe... shit this is going more towards aliens than god eh??

Sorry but I do beleive in such higher things and I think things like karma do excist, but even if it didnt the world would be a better place if people folowed it anyway.

Do a good deed get one in return, sounds like a good plan to me

Religion does not start wars, people twist religion into something evil and then the wars start....

Sorry I'm going a bit over here...
Have a wicked day (and do a good deed for someone)

I'm along the same lines as Toast and SpeedE....I beieve there is a force an entity higher than us (must have taken a fuck load of drug...lol). I was raised as a catholic...please don't start anti-catholic thing...I know how fucked up catholicsm is as an orgainsation and a religion.....so don't bother going there....
anywayz, i have always beleived in evolution too, i don't really fit the catholic doctrine mould....my belief/faith..woteva u wanna call it, is my own personal thing really....i never dicuss it with others, because i always end up getting criticised and people don't tend to really listen, they just see "person who beleives in 'god'" and think....nice target....n e way, i have my own beleif system which i suppose is made up of some catholic/christian beliefs, some eastern-type beliefs and my own personally philosophy. I don't beleive in a 'christian fire and brimestone" type god who sends u straight to hell once u die cos u told lies or did time in prison, or that anyone who follows islam or a non-christian religion is following satan......yeah, i do def beleive in the karma priciple....what goes around comes around, i see that happening to people all the time....well all have the capcity to be "good" or "bad" (horrible terms i know, but u know what I mean), but generally, bevcause we r human animals, we r a mixture of both...we do good things and fucking evil things, but we all have a choice...no one supreme being makes us do anything, we do what we do having made that choice consciously or subconsciously but we do have to live with our choices and the effects of that r not always what we wanted and they don't neccisarily impact on us straight away or in this life/dimension......yeah, i'm babbling now too, this subject is always an interesting one...

GG you make more sense than some of the others I was sort of brought up the same way.

I just hate it when someone has a closed mind and they think that they are right and that's the end.

We all have our own beliefs and no-one should tell us otherwise

Yeah nice one GG, very nice

Yeah, a nice mish mash anyway. *shrug*

People.. I think of John Lennon and the song "imagine".. thnk about this a World without religion.. nothn to die or to kill 4.
That song was the best song of all time.. and it says the truth..especially on 11 Sept.. "America" People decided to die in the name of a god.. coz the religion was so strong towards them.. that they thought they were going to heaven..
Im not sayin that evryone has to not believe in god..Im not saying that because I said this everybody have to feel threatned towards me.. this is only what I think.. I respect everybody else opinions as I would like you to respect mine..
with this I conclude my debate thank you..

Insane ???????

Those Who Believe Absurdities, Commit Atrocities....

Don't believe in god one little bit...

I also believe that there is not higher force- I believe that we (human life) are a statistical inevitability given the size of the chaotic system we live in.

I totally agree with you "cauld"..

Nah dude there are people who use religion for good, like Gundi ( spelling pleez here! ) oh and Mother Terasa... both devoted to their religion making a difference, it's how you use the force LUKE!

cauld: Well said, I agree. Although chaos theory is prett ... chaotic. (ho ho ho)

SpeedE: You can be a good person and do good things without adhering to any religion. Likewise you can do bad things without adhering to a religion. Religion, it seems. is utterly unrelated to how good, moral, or fair a person you are - despite its intended purpose. It just doesn't seem that way.

hmmm many you guys seem to have confused two seperate concepts; religion and god. they are not the same thing, and for many people it is possible to believe in god without believing in 'the church' and all the crap (oops, i mean stuff) that comes with it. many of you automatically assume that if someone believes in god then they also much believe in jesus, the holy trinity, or any of that other weird christian stuff.

from another message: "Some people are weak willed, and need to believe there is someone on their side, some people want an excuse for not performing to full potential, some people are jsut optimists and like to believe there is something awaiting them at the end."

yes maybe, but there's more reasons too; some people actually have religious experiences and believe in god (or something higher) because to them it us un-deniable that there is a god.

Un-deniable - a word that speaks profoundly of unquestioning 'belief' or 'faith'. That's fine, it's just a pity that the existence of a god is unprovable either in confirmation or denial eh.

We're not confusing the concepts - we're talkibng about them simultaneously. Both concepts are inextricably linked in the sense that they both involve some kind of 'faith' in a force that cannot be proven to exist (or not exist).

Those who believe in a god (or gods) are a subset of those who believe in a religion (on the most part).

In terms of 'having religious experiences' - you're not talking about tripping are you? *laughs* Sometimes I just can't help thinking some people (generalising) have a propensity to want to believe something that's improbable, or want to find an explanation for something that's really too complex to explain, so they just attribute it to God, or a 'miracle' etc.

"Those who believe in a god (or gods) are a subset of those who believe in a religion (on the most part). "

that's true for the older generation. these days i'm not so sure. so many people i've talked to have some spiritual concept going on, without a church anywhere in it.

"Sometimes I just can't help thinking some people (generalising) have a propensity to want to believe something that's improbable, or want to find an explanation for something that's really too complex to explain, so they just attribute it to God, or a 'miracle' etc."

that's exactly what i used to think, but now i don't think it's that simple (now that i'm older and wiser and perhaps more drug-fucked). it seems that many people look at what other people believe, realise it's rubbish, and then go on to assume that all religious things are rubbish, without searching for their own 'answer'.

whever works for you is all good. if science is what makes you feel comfortable and empowered, then believe it that (to some degree it's just another religion, after all).

rimu: Agrhh! I fucked up, and got my subsets around the wrong way! I meant:

"Those who believe in a religion are a subset of those who believe in a god"

Oops, my apologies - I guess my post made no sense!

I've searched for my own answer, and I still feel that empowering yourself through knowledge, understanding and thinking and analysing things is the best you can do for yourself - not putting your path through life in the hands of 'fate' or another force. I just can't do that.

There's too much in religion that's been shown to be highly unlikely and mythical for me to believe in any foundation of truth there. Moses parting the ocean? Yeah right (imho).

As you say, each to their own - as long as they don't go trying to convert other people and force their ideals and beliefs on others. Which is why I'm against door knockers and Jehovah's Witnesses, and those people who sing hymns and christian songs in public. Grrrrr.

yeah, grr. they honesly believe they're making the world a better place though, so at least they're happy.

"I've searched for my own answer, and I still feel that empowering yourself through knowledge, understanding and thinking and analysing things is the best you can do for yourself - not putting your path through life in the hands of 'fate' or another force. I just can't do that. "

cool, yeah i can't do that either. but having religious ideas doesn't have to involve putting you life in the hands of something bigger (if it's so much bigger why would it give a toss about you since you're so small and 1 in several billion people? ). you're narrowing your ideas of what's possible; these days religion can be anything you want. make it up as you go, even.

(biggie REALLY needs a 'quote' function, maybe with replies to messages going off the replied message, like a tree type thing, like newsgroups do in outlook express...)

"There's too much in religion that's been shown to be highly unlikely and mythical for me to believe in any foundation of truth there. Moses parting the ocean? Yeah right (imho). "

yeah, hmm the bible *is* kinda dodgy, innit. not to be taken literally, it's more metaphorical or something. specially the old testament.

just to the ppl cussin organised religion - remember christians do a lot of good stuff in NZ society.. salvation army, soup kitchens, alcoholics anonymous, foodbanks, all that dollar a day starving kids stuff, clergy acting as support for people who've been through tragedy.. also church provides a support network + sense of community in a country of ever increasing selfishness and where the concept of community is becoming a thing of the past..

i aint christian and cant stand doorknocking fassies, and the whole concept of overseas missionaries pisses me off, and i agree that in many places such as USA christianity has just become a bastardisation of what it should be and is just used as a tool for assholes like gw bush and john ashcroft to gain popular support for their completely unchristian values..

BUT when people act like the world would be in complete harmony without religion and that no good ever comes of it they arnt looking at the full picture. religion has a lot to answer for, but we also have a lot to thank it for.

true

I am having serious self-esteem issues here,
okay?
Leave me alone.
And stop waking me up on sundays.

:0(

Haha, nice one PurpleLollie/god. *grin*

toasted: I agree with you on most counts. Religion has much potential, and in theory it's a good thing (kinda like communism is good 'in theory' if you ask me), but simialrly to communism it is prone to gettin hijacked by other parties, bending it to suit their will and their ideals, and too often it is forced upon others as the only 'correct' belief. people become so frenzied about their beliefs, and then we get wars, further down the line.

I think you can have community spirit and values without religion, personally. Just because you're not religious does not mean you're incapable of voluntary work, generosity, etc, as I'm sure we all realise.

Um, I think everyone probably has a different angle on God....

There's this whole thing that that many religions and including Christianity has portrayed about a God who hates people, has stacks of rules, regulations and basicly is a pain in the arse. My question ... why would a God like that exist ... and why would anyone want to believe such a god/higher power/force existed?

Personally ... I think Jesus was totally incredible revolutionary and was into the oppressed, the hard-done-by and the common person. He was very unimpressed by religious people (especially those who judged others such as prositutes or whoever) and he stirred up heaps of hassels for them ... to the point where they killed him. Being more than a man death didn't get him down and he kept rocking ... that freaks me out but I still believe it.

So - back to the original question ... do I believe in God ... yeah if he's really a good dude who is the personification of love ... and his name is Jesus.

Bye the way ... I didn't say I believe in what the church or religion generally represents ... because most often they don't represent love or God.

that's what i'm talkin about, paul s. people are/have gotten tired of organised religion and are coming up with their own ideas/relationship-to-god/whatever.

cool aye. in the words of austin powers, "this is a very groovy time, baby"

(if you forget about the imminent collapse of the environment and total destruction of all life. nevermind)

do you think if Jesus came back again like he's sposed to & was executed again....but people generally don't get crucified anymore so they put him in say the electric chair....would christians then wear a lil electric chair around their neck ??

*gets gun and 'aims' it at the sky*

Hey aims while your aiming at the sky should we build castles up there?

Oi!! Watch it!!

Hahaha nice work!

Very sharp, impressive

Baynesy-Whats MikeM's email address brah?!

God - can I have that flight to 2Tribes I've been-a-praying for? Prove your existence by granting it to me.


Please?

heh, heh ... you never know what might happen Voiceinsideyou. What would it mean to you if God proved his existence though?

It would mean that there was some goddam generous Biggie out there, actually. *laughs*

Oi Voice...wtf u doing up at this time..thought I had the monopoly on insomnia..lol

gg: I got home from work at 11:45pm. Had to catch up on Biggie eh!