Election campaign

As the thinking mans den this lounge needs an election thread like every DJ needs a string vest

I must say that compared to Nationals "Building a Brighter Future" billboards, the Labour ones, which actually refer to policy have hugely kicked the complacent botty of the National Party right up its smiling Keyhole. Round 1 to Labour. But I'm still voting Greeen.

I think the ABS will go all the way

shaping up after a very long dull intro to be an exciting election, (and possibly close), well interesting... exciting might be a tad of an oversell

looking forward to tonights debate - two ghouls face off over our nations candy

I love how national's campaign is "dont vote labour". What about all the other parties that people will vote for that are "not national" who could form a coalition with labour? Not really campaigning for that then? Tempted to vote 'small party' to fuck them.

Hate Phil Goff, will still probably vote Labour. Although if Labour completely fail, they might appoint a new leader, and then win next election...

Totally couldn't believe a) how terrible National's opening address was, looked like a high-school production and was so obviously faked and bland, and b) how remarkably good Labour's was. Pushed the right emotional buttons with the heritage stuff, showed a good team with minimal Goff, explaining how and why they became Labour people, was polished and well produced, was generally good.


The Greens one left a lot to be desired sadly.


Now, we just need to see how much bullshit the electorate will swallow over the coming weeks. I suspect a lot

DId i hear a poll this morning that the Nats had dropped like the teenage balls they are in the polls and Labour had gone up or was I just dreaming?

slight drop by the Nats/Brandkey and slight upswing to Labour according to the poll - which I wouldn't put much faith in either way (only one poll counts)

3 News/Reid Poll:
National 52.3% (down 5.1%)
Labour: 30.2% (up 3.6%)
Greens: 9.4%
NZ First: 2.4%
Act: 1.5%
Maori: 1.4%
Mana: 0.9%
UF: 0.0%

http://www.greens.org.nz/greenroom on now

Phil Goff kicked John Keys ass in that debate. I have never felt so anxious about a election...I so want National out and want Labour in ...

It was definitely an interesting debate.

it was a rubbish debate - the format was a crappy badly realised piece of soundbite driven fluff.. there is no actual depth to anything they siad and it favors the rude (ie those who talk over others)

masterchef is treated with more respect by TVNZ - as such the only thing I got from the debate was reason for us to maintain and support a proper state owned and operated broadcaster

as voters we deserve better means to be informed about the actual policies of our two major parties and the minor parties deserve to be able to debate with the two major parties in a format that isn't shallow, pointless and inane

*shakes fist*

Needs more worm.

http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2011/11/01/gordon-campbell-onthe-tvnz-keygoff-debate/

upside, seems Coro may return to 7.30pm (with no help from President Key)

Watching it now... and that quote sums it up perfectly.

The bits with Sainsbury et. al are especially cringeworthy...

! The worm at the bottom is a classic both in politics AND tequila!

I totally agree. I tried to keep watching but it was poorly managed TV imo. In between Espiner trying to get it to move along before the leaders had finished speaking, Goff's constant talking over people and looking like mr negative and Key being mr pre-prepared scripts it seemed a little hack.

Fuck, if Key mentions we "live in a dynamic environment" one more time I'm gonna spew...

lol yes Rob, Goff was the only one who talked over people

Just started to watch this on the tvnz site.. Hopes aren't high given the responses I've seen.

Typical National Party bullies running a populist bash up beneficiaries campaign.

The number of available jobs isn't a product of how hard job seekers search for them

Disagree
I'm voting Labour anyway, so it doesn't matter, but key was better in the debate
When Goff said "you can't survive on $13 an hour" and Key said "you can't survive on the dole" it was a killer line

Phil has the best policies... needs to let them speak for themselves and be less negative

Why do we have adverts during an election debate? Kind of sad.. expect more from a public service broadcaster.. although I guess that's Mr. Coleman's fault.

Kind of sad - rushing questions and lack of depth in favour of revenue earning is good, its business... it keeps the wheels of commerce turning

are you a commie HH?

or reason to look at Labour's broadcasting policy launched yesterday

http://asianinvasion2006.blogspot.com/

the left is owning the 'graphic' debate

cock - so fucking hilarious... if you're a 7 year old homophobe in the making

Oh, we're referencing Cactus Kate as a credible source of anything now are we? Good to know.

she's a credible rabid monkey

I used to like monkeys

*shakes fist*

Kate = my kind of cock tease

*shakes boooty*

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10763639

Labour losing in the polls lefties

Put that in ye cocke pipes and smoke it

only one poll counts NR and that has no margin of error or other flaws... well there is the voters themselves

Edit - not to mention the parties and those that inhabit them

I didn't say he was.. He just did it more and in what looked like a pretty un-hinged manner a few times. His outcome from that first debate was to show the fence sitters why they should worry about him. Key didn't do much of note there either for those people but at least didn't come off so negative.

Didn't see the second debate... so no idea how it was.

That image of Key is pretty amusing... not least because there are things on there which almost cannot be faulted - such as the America's Cup involvement - unless of course you are incapable of simple concepts like return on investment. Moreso, Labour would have done them in a heartbeat too - they've even said so themselves.

The SCF one is a laugh too... Labour's own policy (which National supported since it was a good idea, in theory) is the reason for that.

Seems like the works of a blindly partsan fool after a quick read of their own facebook posts.

depends on your perspective rob - please note I agree with the rationale for our boat building industry and the americas cup funding...

I am also prone to the thought perhaps we've done enough in this area (open to both sides of the argument on that count) but from a purely left wing perspective The Americas Cup is a rich persons race... always has been and always will be and therefore if you hold left wing views the thought of propping up a rich persons boat race could be seen to be very distasteful - you might pick up a anti key theme from that graphic, which kinda infers the mindset of the maker

perhaps it would have been better and more effective if they'd just wrote "loves the cock"... it would have resonated with a certain someone here

Edit - now with added SCF - come on rob, the facts show serious mis-mangement of the SCF bailout and entry and extension in that scheme - all under the nats. You can't for a second pin that on labour, but you know that...

Doh think I don't know that?

But this is the first reality check for all you fanbois crowing about Labour's superior electioneering strategy.

whose crowing... and who has missed the polls the last 3 years... its hardly been a great time for Labour

superior policies but the rest of the parties strategies have been an abject failure - generally speaking

Superior policies? Lol. Thay can't even account for them.

yep superior polices

and this govt can account for their promises... and track record of being the worst financial manageres of the past 50 years

This govt has had to deal with a cluster fuck of perfect storms like no other in the past 50 years

And if I have to listen yet again to that old hardy tri-ennial Australia brain drain....

Nah there's nothing new to see here

that is correct, the natural and man made disasters National have faced would have tested the best govt regardless of side of the political line - but I don't think National has handled any of the crisis well to put it mildly

but lets use it as an excuse for their terrible record... whilst ignoring some of the outcomes (people fleeing as never before)...

la la la everythings fine la la la

Ppl flew dring the 9 long years of' unparallelled prosperity' that the spadework for was done in the 90's 'wilderness years'

can you talk in non text speak please, I'm not 12

Explain to me how the average person is better off under national and I will vote for them.

I'm not here to get you to vote for National

I'm here to tear a new reality for the Labour fanbois - your rhetoric ain't resonating

dear god man, if thats you tearing a new reality... things are grim - needs more attack lines other than the headlines of major newspapers

might I suggest your get your oil from a whale

I know national will win the next election, it's the motivation I needed to move back to Aus after my degree.

No point in staying in this overpriced shitstain of a country

Hell, I'm moving to Sweden. Its pretty much the only country that has any fucking idea how to run a country.

its ok guys I'll keep the lights on

kiwi for life

Wrong comparison.

"Would the average person be better off today if Labour won the last election?" is the real question.

And I suppose people's answer to that depends on their political persuasions...

Nah I am thinking ahead. What will National do to make life better for the average joe after the election?

I already know what Labour would do, and the greens, hell even act, have yet to see anything but slogans from the National party.

MORE JOBS! MORE EXPORTS! MORE ASSET SALES!

Don't forget MORE GST and MORE ROADS

(less take home pay)

if thinking ahead all the parties are a waste of space and morally bankrupt

as they all assume we don't face a crisis of finite resources expiring rapidly... or climate changes... resources wars... and political and economic instability globally for the foreseeable future

they all buy into the lie that we can just muddle on in our shamefully selfish ways

I'd rather get my peyote from a cactus

Yep. Number two for one percenters.

And number one for ass hanger.

she's a fucking nutbar - well done on finding your perfect match

It is really, really simple Bob. Investing money in the America's cup makes money, and has done so every time they've done it. It is such a sure-thing payoff not doing it would be incompetent. It doesn't matter if we've done enough - it works.

The people who don't seem to get this seem to be people clouded by the fact it's yachting or they can't drag themselves away from the detail that it's a rich man sport long enough to accept that it is simply a great investment. It is not propping up a rich person's boat race, the investment is helping prop us up by turning every $1 the Govt invests into $1.20 or more like magic. Better still, it's the kind of investment only a government can reap the full benefits of so they can't get squeezed out by private investors etc.


They do? Maybe you read Norightturn or publicaddress too much - So far as I've read they did it according to the legislation and went in with eyes open as much as could be given the sort of organisations these finance companies are. It didn't come off as well as people hoped but that was always going to be a risk with the bailout legislation. How would it have been any different without hindsight under any other Govt? It wouldn't.

dbl post

I read across the blogosphere and all the papers/media...

with regards to SCF you're quite simply wrong, but I have neither the time nor inclination to go and find the facts cause you'd still dispute them.. but Fran O'Sullivan has been particularly damning of this govt over SCF and THEIR decisions (why no due diligence, why continue them in the scheme when they had an opt out and all advice said the thing was doomed etc etc etc)... Fran O'Sullivan Rob... the lefties lefty

as for boat building, you might notice I agreed with you - I still have reservations but its not a vast sum so not worth worrying about (much)

The point is bob not if it ended up being the right/wrong call - it was the right call based on what they knew at the time. Labour would have almost certainly made the same call - given their knowledge of it would have been the same. They may crow about it now in hindsight - that is easy to do as opposition parties never have the risk of failure in their actions - the only thing they have to worry about is the next election cycle.

This is the amusing thing about the left vs right battle. For as much as the right gets stuff wrong either through balls-ups or ill-thought policy, the left still have convenient memory blanks of their own performance where it badly falls short of promise or expectation - which is also prevalent in many of their most vocal supporters. At least the right are suitably embarrassed by theirs stuff-ups generally.

You can have bomber

You're welcome

*shakes booty*

Across the road, Mr Key cheerfully told a passer-by he was off to make an announcement "on science".

"Science is good," the man mused.

"Yup, you can't go wrong with science."

SCIENCE! (best said in that Thomas Dolby voice)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/campaign-trail/5905897/Keys-latte-set-gets-spoonfuls-of-sugar

Rob it was the wrong call to include SCF in the scheme... treasury (if memory serves) said they had concerns (I believe they advised against it) about SCF - the right call would to have checked before allowing them into the scheme

neither side handles their policy failures well - to suggest one mob is better than the other at dealing with their cockups is pure fantasy, one eyed fantasy

YOU ARE WHY THE LEFT FAILS

you care so little about NZ you would abandon it because your party LOSES?

you disgust me

i hate john key with a passion but he is our PM. and if he wins the election he is still our PM

and if he says "vad-d over the parapets" then i will do it because THAT is what socialism means: obedience and loyalty to the state/

fuck off hippy. go legalise weed or whatever irrelevant blullshit you want to do

Flying QANTAS?

Good luck with that.

yes I am sure QANTAS will be having issues in a year, and vads, go have sex with the state seeing as you love it so much. I don't care for states.

An interesting contrast between the Green and the National websites. One tellls you what the policy is. The other tells you how fantastic and successful they are and attacks Labour.

huh...what happened ?...where am i ?...how did i end up here ?

You too huh?

Voters ranked their first five issues; environment, food prices, schools (2nd equal), hospital care, petrol prices, and people in poverty.

wonder why national is ahead in the polls ? :/

Oh right, politics is about faces.

No becasue John Key is building a brigher future in all of those things

The polls make this point stand right out. 60% of the population are either filthy rich and want to get richer, or they are star-struck seal clappers who have no idea what's actually a better deal for them.

Ten Facts about NZ over the last 3 years.

- Unemployment increased by 50 per cent, leaving 157,000 people out of work.

- 100,000 Kiwis left for Australia

- Prices up nearly four times faster than incomes.

- First credit rating downgrade in 13 years.

- 60,000 more on benefits costing $1b

- Wage gap with Australia increased by $32 a week.

- 55,200 people aged 15 to 24 not in education, employment or training.

- Economy grown by just 0.4 per cent

- Tax cuts actually cost an extra $1.1b in their first nine months.

- Underclass grown with 32000 more children living on benefit dependant households.

so sayeth Phil

*cough*

Cough, so sayeth Statistics NZ:

http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/income-and-work/employment_and_unemployment/HouseholdLabourForceSurvey_MRSep11qtr.aspx
http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/economic_indicators/prices_indexes/LabourCostIndexSalaryandWageRates_MRSep11qtr.aspx
http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/economic_indicators/prices_indexes/food-price-index-info-releases.aspx

There's been no job creating inititives by this government in the last 3 years at all, aside from the cycleway.... which last I heard is looking for volunteers. Great jobs there... they cut the budget for R&D funding, one of the greatest investments in future technology and development. They increased GST when John Key EXPLICITLY said he wouldn't if national got elected, gave the major benefits of tax cuts to the rich which increases the amount of debt that those in the lower classes incurred for the country and now it's them who will have their services cut in order to pay for those above them, if you think a good system of government is where all the money from those who are struggling to make ends meet goes to those who don't need it you are severely deluded.

OMG that is so sad.. .. my friends nephew just left school he's 17 doesn't care about getting a job.. and just went on the dole..what is wrong with people? I mean the government is completely shit house and the above facts make me so sad but people can try a little harder to better themselves??? Can they not???? I'm not saying it's easy but what is going on with these 55,200 young people not doing ANYTHING??? maybe they are just having kids and getting money that way??? Anyhoo I am over it.

don't blame the youth for the crappy options they have on leaving school

the reason we have such high unemployment is the lack of jobs - don't blame them out of work for their plight....

What's wrong with them is they have lost all hope. There are no jobs for them out there, so why bother looking? Sure they could go training, but if that isn't being catered for either than there's nothing to attract them to that.

training...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5918071/User-pays-night-schools-see-student-numbers-plummet

Of those ten fun facts pretty much all are attributable to factors outside any NZ government's complete control.

Sure, they could have done a whole lot better in the job creation area (doing anything much at all might have been a start) but the fact is the ratings downgrade, unemployment, living costs, wage disparity with Australia, people leaving for Australia etc were happening regardless of the Govt. Most of them happened at a rate which accelerated/rose then entire time Labour was in Govt as well - and that was when things were good *check that*.. the best they'd ever been economically. Remember National painting the same picture when they were trying to get in?

A top ten list is a convenient way to frame specifics so they make sense to the majority who don't really put much effort into understanding the details. Every opposition party can do it and they're good points - make for shocking reading too. But if the implication is things would have been substantially different under a different Govt then people need to take their blinkers off.

How will we manage with the future shortage of people who can do couples pottery or make a good Moroccan meal?

Oh I know RobW that a lot can be blamed on the global recession, but the way they have managed this recession is abysmal, cut the cullen fund, gave tax cuts to people who wouldn't spend the money as much as those who really needed it (trust me if you had introduced a 6k tax break on the first 6k earned, you would have seen a lot more spending). And things are not the best they have ever been... the 60's is where NZ thrived

you'd have been moaning back in the sixties too

totally agree with you on this point - though I'd also argue that some of these 'negatives' are actually positives in a national members eyes - high unemployment = lower wages (a unofficial national party policy) etc

saying that I think many of us are gobsmacked that the media haven't framed this as some sort of attack on our beloved Mr Key

I guess its hate on the actors day today and normal lack of insightful debate will resume shortly

Skills such as cooking, vege gardening and mechanics are wasted on the poor

Don't pretend to know me, you don't.

Robyn - brain fart - press here

Don't pretend to know the sixties, you don't.

well we're potentially facing a shortage of Moroccan eateries serving food on hand made pottery dishes

you do realise their is more to education and learning than direct skills applied to the jobs we don't have... nah thought not

Lets not forget the 2 billion dollars that National borrowed off the EQC in the 90's and how that has come back to bite us in the arse.

oh, you mean warm fuzzies n stuff bob_d?

I bet I have read more about the 60's in NZ than you have read about me.

nope - learning is in itself a skill... food preparation is part of morrocan cooking I would assume a skill that can be used to gain a job... but hey I guess thinking ios hard for some of you

here's tom with you daily soundbite and attack lines

oh and you know where all them learning centres that have closed or dramatically cut back are generally located

you know the areas with higher unemployment... youth skills shortages and youth with nothing to do...

to the rescue...

http://www.abracadabracafe.com/

and affiliated supply of said pottery nearby...

http://www.thesouq.co.nz/webapps/i/75149/124732/245219

I've seen quite enough, thanks

but are they doing the learning though? or are middle class freeloaders bussing in?

I've no problem with the middle classes bettering themselves - god knows they need all the help they can get with both the left and right working hard on dismantling their world

learning is good

taking money out of learning bad

but making money out of learning good?

and if so, why not charge?

a little

err a little ah after dinner mint sir it wont hurt a bit

some wag on twitter