Election '08

What topics/policies would you like to see at the very least some debate over in the lead up to the election if not some concrete p[olicy offered by any of the parties:

1. GST on essential items (as it seems current today), I'd like the Greens if no one else to take this up as a election policy, I believe that like the UK we shouldn't have GST on essential items - ie basic foodstuffs, electricity...

2. Local Quotas enforced for export products - ie Dairy, where x% of all dairy is kept for domestic consuption and perhaps price control enacted so we the public aren't subsidising export markets (refer to NZ diary prices in other countries)

3. Energy - nukes, wind, water.... debate and discussion if nothing else. Also WTF happens to the oil drilled in NZ?

4. Our involvement with the various coalition of the willings wars - Afganistan and iraq, bring our forces home from these imperialist wars

5. infrastructure projects - maybe something OTHER than more roads... as oil prices increase is it really logical to build our entire infrastructure based on cars? Anyone looking 20/50/100 years into the future or are our politicians only interesed in 2-3 year cycles of employment

Education and fixing the slow rot. Slow rot into crime by far too many, slow rot into thinking the only thing that matters is money (and therefore not living in NZ), that lawyers and accountants are somehow more valued than teachers or nurses, that participation is a substitute for competition.

I want to know how the above can be reversed through quality education (including your home upbringing obviously - not just at school)

R

then vote labour!

1 and 2 I disagree with you sorry Mr D, 4 I'm pretty meh on (we've got the balance about right in my mind right now), 3 and 5 would be ones I'd definitely want in there.

The biggest issue for me is who can put together a cohesive vision on significant productivity growth in the country. That comes through appropriate tax incentive, infrastructure that aids business/exporting, focussed education, deep local capital markets etc etc... No one's grabbed that ground for me yet...

1 I've always wanted since GST was introduced...

2 I am unsure on but would like to see some public debate on the issue - not fond of the idea of enforcing such regressive policies on business but its worthy of debate IMO

But "participation is a substitute for competition." = Labour-esque thinking to a tee.

And their performance in almost a decade has seen a decline in respect for law, quality of graduates, appreciation of the opportunities available in NZ. Of course, the elders haven't exactly led be example in many industries (education for example)

R

Number 1 is a terrible idea. It creates massive compliance headaches & costs. The definitional issues alone are ridiculous.

Most other countries manage VAT/GST exemptions with a minimum of fuss.

having said that,

1/ GST. I am tired of the tax debate being framed by people who are in the shit because of their own selfish, debt fuelled greed. I had a conversation with woman who I work with who was demanding a tax cut for her and her partner because they were suffering under TWO massive mortgages and other debt bills. This couple would earn at least 150k, and she refuses to join our union on the basis she "can better for herself by herself" and she doesn't want to pay $6 a fortnight in fees. My attitude to people like her (as I told her) is to get a biscuit, a nice hot cup of tea and enjoy her self-inflicted demise. While people bleat and somehow in their own heads manage to blame someone else for their own greed, 185,000 children still need lifting out of poverty. Screw the whining middle class. So I am in favour of cutting tax for low income New Zealanders, not fiddling with the likes of GST. Make the first 10k of income tax free and tell everyone else to learn to live within their means.

2/ Local quotas for key food items - YES!

3/ New Zealand is already right up there in our energy from renewables. But just these last week we’ve seen yet again batteries of lobbyists and sectional interests lining up to decry climate change initiatives from the government. I suspect that outright climate change denial is still the prevalent view in large sections of the corporate and media world, and the general plan appears to be to publicly tepidly accept but privately vigorously oppose climate change in the hope that if National wins in November they'll reward their big business backers by making paying for climate change go away for as long as they are in power. Nuclear power is not acceptable to the vast majority of the electorate. Oh and our oil is high quality stuff that can't be refined here gets shipped to Aussie then sold direct to whoever pays the highest price. We import low quality oil for refining in Wangarei or import some fuels already refined.

4/ our overseas deployments are part of the tricky tightrope Labour has walked on to try and keep onside with everyone, not get noticed by Al Qaeda, and not upset the Americans. So far, it’s worked.

5/ If you want decent public transport infrastructure, DON'T VOTE NATIONAL!!!! I can't emphasise this enough. Maurice Williamson and Murray McCully have both made their views clear on things like trains - they don't think we need them. Their view is spend nothing and expect the market to provide.

6/ I'd really like to see a massive reform of the fishing industry. The whole system at the moment is corrupt to hell as the result of the 1980's reforms.

GST isn't merely a sales tax though fishy. Don Brash's article in the paper pointed out very nicely how compliance costs etc would be fucking ridiculous.

I'd prefer tax breaks for low income families.

end ALL taxes on taxes i.e gst on local body rates

did anyone miss the YOU in my topic?

This thread wasn't meant to debate the things I'd like discussed/debated and possibly implimented

as you were

I'd like to see a dabate on gst as well. But the problem with this is that nothing will happen in either government, as the cost to impliment this alone will be in the millions. Then, you look at what is "essential". Is bread essential, ok yes....but what about bakery bread? What about bread products, like hot cross buns? It's a logistical nightmare.

And I think John Key is a moron, I say this because he doesnt know what to say when asked anything, like the hilarity the other week of not having an opinion on anything as it then becomes the parties opinion....and 1981...ummmm I don't remember how I felt about it......he's a slimeball really.

I'd like to see a fresh face for Labour as well....Helen has done some good things, but people will not continue to vote for her, they need a new leader.

I've now decided I dispair for the NZ political landscape.
Labour have done some good things over the past but are now looking ridiculous with manage-by-polls decisions. Yet National still has that conservative straight-employed-white-man only vibe in the background and a leader that I like but would probably cringe when held up as our PM internationally.

Shame really.

Yup....I'll second that Gareth. A lot of the polls are rather skewed as well, they will door knock in certain areas where they know it will showbig National support. Come election time though I don't think Labour will need a lot to form a coalition parliament. And if they got in again expect to see Helen step down soon...

I don't dislike Helen, but possibly think the best thing for the country could be a Goff-led Labour party that starts a-fresh. With Goff at PM I'm not sure who'd be good to replace Cullen in Finance though...

Would you need to replace Cullen?

And yes, I agree Helen has done well, but the public are finding her a little "last decade" perhaps?

Goff is definitely in the running to take over...

In line with my start a-fresh view, I think you would have to.

could he just wear a hat and sunglasses?

a fresh start from a political party might be asking too much don't you think? Needs time in opposition to recharge their batteries... maybe

he'd look ridiculous. might be good.
New party - Goff as Leader, Key as Finance Minister and I'd be happy enough.

Key as finance minister is a good alternative to having him in charge....cause quite frankly, I'd consider leaving this country if he was the bumbling idiot talking to important foreign leaders...

Goff is to the right of Key.

We need MORE not LESS socialism.

I did wonder if someone was going to call me on that right-ish tendency there...

principals


what the fuck are the politicians principals!?!

for example:
labour getting free trade agreements with china

what the fuck!?!
why dont they just change their name to 'cheap chinese labour' and get it over and done with?

fuck

I agree, merf.

When was the last time we had STATESMEN?

For a while, HC looked like it - but she's so terrified of letting the right back in, for good reasons, she would claw her friends to be re-elected.
Lange had hints... Muldoon, for all his flaws, was willing to stand up and be counted as well. Kirk before him, then we have to go all the way back to Savage.

no tax on first 16k would be excellent

get back to your ploughshare

Dream on sonny....dream on. We'll do that....and have no roads....sound good?

roads are not funded from income tax no?

http://www.petroltax.org.nz/index.html

That's a cool graph!

But anyway, ok well, pick anything you like that is important to our country, how bout education....

By the way, I have a tax cut calculator here - just doing that would cost $6.5 BILLION dollars.
Which is rather a lot of the budget to disappear...

lol....6.5Billion huh? I just liked the pretty petrol prices graph....though that was interesting...

Yup. So far from reality that it's ridiculous. Even a tax-free threshold for the first 10k costs nearly $4b in foregone tax revenue.

so?

i certainly wouldnt give a shit
in fact i would PREFER there were no roads

I could cut that easily enough my friend... believe me... MSD, MFAT and a few other departments would feel my razor :>

Crown money like that comes from the central pool - you can't break out the inbound tax take? So yes, largely income tax, plus GST, plus corporate tax etc etc etc...

well since I hear and read that money collected for roads gets diverted elsewhere it is reasonable to assume is it not that the incoming tax take can be broken out?

Now this is the problem right here...everyone doesnt care about any other issues the government faces, and just wants more money is their back pocket. It's a real shame that 80% of people in this country vote like this...

half the issues the government faces are of its own making

the more they have to spend the more issues they create for themselves

therefore halve the issues by halving the taxes

problem solved

ummm yes.....and then the goverment will be bankrupt....good call...

And what about all the good things they have done? Without money they cant do then now can they?

Why do some many countries (including Australia, and South Africa) manage just fine?

The only issue I can remember was whether GST should be charged on feminine hygiene products

if feminine hygiene products were to be exempt I would expect male grooming products to be too

lol
i dont think you will find 80% of the country prefer that there were NO roads

AND my statement is in no way based on having more money in my back pocket

My statement was in regards to the population voting with their pockets im mind only....not that we dont have roads.

haha then you picked a very back example (being me)

=)

i vote 'no confidence'

that's all well and good but even removing every single dollar of Crown investment in roading wouldn't get close to a quarter of your tax-free threshold idea!
So where's the other $4billion coming from?

i refer back to your original statment in this conversation:



where is the other $4b coming from?
it 'comes' from nowhere

you are presupposing the fact that the tax MUST be taken from us, and use this as a starting point

i start from the basis that taxes MUST be justified to be taken
taking tax on the first ~$16 is unjustifiable to me.

because people other than the government are unable to do any good with their own money?

It's fairly obvious what I meant mate - what else would you stop providing through the Goverment (on top of the no Govt contribution to roading) given that you want a tax take that would still be at least $4b short of the existing one?

i understand what youre saying also, but we are coming at this from different places

what else would I stop providing? everything but bare emergency services and public health (ala cuba)

what do i think the current governmental structure should stop providing? i dont know

What about the Commerce Commission?

Would you let owners of natural monopoly assets extract excess rents through charging prices at a level just below that which would see new competition enter the market?

well Antics they've pretty much nobbled the Serious Fraud Office
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=213&objectid=10495384 (from March this year)

lol
shit if i had my way there would be no POSSIBILITY of having white collar crime or a monopoly!

i think the AGRICULTURAL revolutin is the problem with our society
pretty hard to create some sort of commercial monopoly when youre hunting for your dinner or rethatching your roof

there is a difference between what many actually want, and what they think should be done by necessity

Referendum on MMP.

To be replaced by what? fpp? I don't think so.

there are other types of proportional representation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation

so which are you advocating?

Vote for da Greenz!!!!