Cricket In Zimbabwe.

What are you thoughts?? Think it should happen??

I do personally - might help their economy - still many people living there......

Danger - well SA is just as bad - maybe even worse.....

Looking at it from a sporting perspective, no, it seems most of the teams don't want to go there and play, the body running it should compromise.

Interesting that NZ seems almost certain to refuse to play in Kenya as well, even if the games arn't moved they will forfeit as the players safety can't be guaranteed.

And yes is SA is bad in terms of crime, but not terrorist threats.

How about cricket in Kenya? NZ are supposed to play there ...but its looking more and more like they won't.

yeah bad_seed - so very true - heard on the news this morning - they forfeit a match point if they agree to play......

So basically it is just about terrorism??

from what i can work out,

kenya - safety issues re terrorists
zimbabwe - safety issues and human rights abuses

OK I understand Kenya - but trust me Zimbabwe will have enough saftey precautions etc - something the country is crying for - they need it and know it!!

Interesting thread here.
As you can tell by my name I am part SA! man Cricket In south Africa has enough issues with Crime, Kenya has a lot of issues with terrorism and Zimbabwe well Mugabe is just reversing Apartheid in a sense! he is kinda anti white and anti Commonwealth so there is a big issue for NZ players there! However it would make his country a lot of money by hosting matches and the like soit would be stupid to stop the cricket there! heck if I had the money I would be in Harare right now and also parts of South Africa! My word what beautiful countries! Mugabe is just an idiot to put it nicely and it would be a shame to cancel the cricket because of his bigoted ways! GO the Zimbabweans boys!! I have met them and they are such a lovely bunch of guys! I worry about Heath Streak especialy he has farmland in Matabeleand where they are clearing off farmers! Heres hoping Mugabe wont be so stubborn!!

*they disagree on playing!

may have a nasty back lash if the they don't play in Zim as that's there no 1 sport, & to to take that away may be more harmful than the games itself.

JCProtea - we are aware of that - MBeki is just as pigheaded and anti Caucasian parties, of any kind - even tho apartheid is reveresed in South Africa and Zimbabwe - South Africa is not being picked on in anyway - Myself i am a South African and think SA is just as bad as Zim - u just dont hear about it as much - Kenya itself has been gunned down by the cricket board as is Zim - But why not SA - like we can protect cricket players - we cant even protect the Presidents on home!!!!!

*own

If NZ win enough games to qualify for the super 6, then they need mot to play Kenya if it's as dangerous as what reports say it is.

I heard on the news the NZ cricket side think they are a target for a Terrorist attack - ONLY them - i mean please - like NZ has any reason to be attacked - especially their fucken cricket team!!!

NZ should send a Fourth XI of invitation players from around NZ, backyard crickets who are keen for an all expenses paid holiday in kenya!

And they'll still win cos Kenya are average

pixieflower: Well, they could be caught in the crossfire of a terrorist attack. It was only a short while ago that a bomb went off right by the NZ teams bus in Pakistan. About 6 years ago a bomb went off outside the NZ teams hotel in Sri Lanka (I think it was Sri Lanka) ...pretty much any western country would be potential target for terrorists.

Harvey fair enough with the crossfire theory - but the Bomb in Pakistan - u cannot tell me that was intentional - that the bomb went off just for the NZ team - they just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time!!

IMO - England have a higher risk of being a target than any other team - hence the fact England are playing a larger role in the War against Iraq than NZ or any1 else.

pixieflower: In my opinion it does not matter whether or not the NZ team is a direct target. Their safety is still at risk.

But Harvey - South Africa is just as bad - i dont get it - the security will be so extreme - they'll have no worries - especially with the publicity of it all - with England - it will be so tight - I personally think they have made a anthill into a moutain............

Well, there are specific concerns about Kenya and the possibility of terrorist attacks and their lack of security.

Have a read of some of the comments from this article in the Herald the other day...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sports/sportsstorydisplay.cfm?storyID=3098204&thesection=sport&thesubsection=cricket&thesecondsubsection=blackcaps

OK Apologies - did not know about the missiles and suicide bombings etc in Kenya - lack of knowledge on my side...

Well, would revenue from playing cricket in Zimbabwe be redistributed back to society? I doubt it. Mugabe will see to that :/

Good point D-man - the bastard should be shot!!

Another point - Would the general members of the public actually have enough money to afford tickets to the games?

Well even tho the Zim Dollar is so weak against basically every currency available - some folk are still able to survive there - basically the unemployed would not be able to - but many could....

If Australia and England forfeit their games to Zimbabwe, then Zimbabwe may make it to the super six easier than expected.

Well they might make it to the super 6 but how far will they go from there??

I am suprised Mugabe actually is allowing them to play - well with the fact there are caucasion players!!! Racist bastard!

Maybe the Zimbabwean team should check their security too then?

kenya are now calling for nz to be kicked out of the world cup if they do not play in kenya and to be banned from test match cricket for up to a year! pfft like that will ever happen...get rid of kenya and keep new zealand i say...kenya couldnt win a game against the Onehunga High School 1st 11

LOL Zenith - too true - shocking they want them banned - Kenya will be ridiculed forst before NZ....

Fensh Smasher - MuGabe need them for cash flow purposes - he has sanctions against him and all his assets frozen - dont think they need to worry!!

No other team has come as close to being victims of terroism as NZ has recently. If I was one of them I would say to hell with kenya, I'm not going. Cricket is not important enough to take the risk. The ICC should acknowledge that, even make a special case for NZ after the pakistani bombing that could have killed the lot of them.

Kenyan poice have basically said they can respond quickly to bombings. The assurance that is needed is that they can stop them happening. Unfortunately if NZ don't play they lose points going into the top 6 playoffs and that would cost them dearly. I still think they should refuse to play though.

The claim of apartheid being reversed in zimbabwe may be true, but don't go there with regards to SA. That is a very contentious issue and deserves its own thread.

"Kenyan poice have basically said they can respond quickly to bombings"

haha thats like having a ambalence at the botton of the cliff instead of at the top. Not much use the police would be if the NZ cricket team were caught in a bomb blast.

Can u honestly tell me that the Pakistan bombing was aimed at NZ - i think not!!

No pixie. But it was aimed at generating international exposure. If you have to kill some touring westerners, then so be it.

just in the news...NZ WONT PLAY IN KENYA

Well, that solves this debate then

But what about the 2 points?

WHAT ABOUT THE TWO POINTS!!??

:O

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

I thought this thread was about Zimbabwe

The Australian & England/Wales cricket boards don't have the balls to take the approach New Zealands has toward Kenya. Although having said that the Zimbabawe issue is more of a protest than a safety issue.

Zimbabwean citizens are going to die this year because the people occupying the farms cannot use them efficiently. Then what happens, aid companies ask you to dig into your pockets to save their remaining countrymen. The moment you do you help perpetuate the Mugabe regime. It's a vicious circle.
Any foreign exchange raised from the tournament is unlikely to filter through far enough to prevent the upcoming famine.

It is about Zim MrMeiner - but it has branched out to more controversial issues!!!

I agree with what u have said - no doubt - like D-man pointed out earlier -

Oz is now refusing to play in Zim - WTF - some people so Niave about some countries - Zim - is more a Political issue than terrorism - compared to the Northern parts of Africa!!!

Get over it!!

I think this just goes to show how idiotic it was to even bother with attempting to include Zimbabwe and Kenya as venues in the world cup to begin with.

Idiotic Harvey?? Maybe for Kenya - with all the terrorists and shit - But Zimbabwe has nothing to do with that - why not play there????

Because it is quite easy to see that people were going to kick up a fuss with regard to the political situation in Zimbabwe. Its more trouble than its worth and its ruining the world cup.

Regardless if Zimbabwe is safe or not all its done has caused controversy which the cricket world cup can do with out,why do countrys have to share events anyway? if Zimbabwe and Kenya werent scheduled matches there would be NO problems with the WC.

Well firstly it is an Africa WC - witht he fact Kenya and Zim participating aswell - why can they not have home games?? I understand Kenya - but Zim...

The political issues has nothing to do with the WC, seriously they r making something outta nothing!!

Zimbabwe is a hostile country under Mugabe's rule they(Mugabes followers) are opposed to the comonwealth and run around the country side taking farms from the white owners.
I feel for the people that could miss out on this BUT the safety of our team is the important factor here,personaly I think it would be fine playing there BUT is it worth the risk ?
hey why not schedule a couple of games in Baghdad?

And if the players don't want to play and don't feel safe, then I think we should respect their decisions.

FFS Richy - what do u know about Zimbabwe???
Do u have any idea what is actually going on there - what "His followers" are actually doing - the outcome etc - IT IS NOT A TERRORIST country - they have no worry - compared to Baghdad and Kenya - it is more a human rights thing - not TERRORISM!!

But harvey - they have no reason to feel unsafe in ZIMBABWE - thats what i am trying to get across!!

Well, I understand that you think they have no reason to feel unsafe. But obviously the players do feel unsafe.

Yeah NO SHIT its not a terrorism issue,I never said it was my point the whole time is based on human rights and as New Zealanders human rights are important to us so why play in a country where the human rights of thousands are abused !
Just because you think everythings peachy cream doesnt mean the governments of Aus,Eng etc agree with you,if the PLAYERS dont feel safe case closed.

I just read this in an article about the Australians possibility of pulling out of their match in Zimbabwe...

"Australia's World Cup match against Zimbabwe is under serious threat after the federal government received a warning today about the likelihood of protests and violence."

"Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said the fixture on February 24 should be re-located after Australia's High Commissioner to Zimbabwe informed the federal government that Zimbabwean police were refusing to guarantee a controlled response to protests."

http://www.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2003/FEB/131447_AAP_02FEB2003.html

Yeah - i know - it is sad tho - i should start a thread on the current situation on Africa - but it might turn nasty!!

Richy - u dont understand tho - there are people living there still - that need this right now - people that r not responsible or willing to give up their land/farms - meaning they still have to suffer......

Its a debate that it very contraversial at the moment and still sensitive even tho its been going on for 2 yrs already!!!

And have a read of this. Its not just NZ/Australia/England that have these concerns...

POTCHEFSTROOM, South Africa, Feb 1 AAP - South African veteran Gary Kirsten has admitted he would refuse to play in Zimbabwe if his side was due to visit the strife-torn nation during the World Cup.

Kirsten's revelation comes on the back of reports of an Al-Qaeda cell planning to attack Westerners in Zimbabwe - and South Africa - if the US goes to war with Iraq.

Kirsten, whose side is not drawn to play any matches in either Zimbabwe or another trouble spot, Kenya, told a charity function he believed there was a "security issue" around matches in Zimbabawe.

"Politics should be left to the politicians," said Kirsten.

"But I would not play in Zimbabwe... there is a security issue."

http://www.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2003/FEB/131425_AAP_02FEB2003.html

Yeah NO SHIT its not a terrorism issue,I never said it was my point the whole time is based on human rights - There u go!!!!!! Political - why should they feel unsafe?????

u on a cricket site Harvey???

FFS pixieflower! Are you not reading all the stuff I am posting here? I think there are many reasons for the players to feel unsafe.

pixieflower: I have been posting links from www.cricinfo.com ...theres shitloads of articles on all of these issues relating to the world cup.

fuck - i was reading them - i just wanted to know!!!
was after i saw u posted them sheesh!!!

You said "they have no reason to feel unsafe in ZIMBABWE - thats what i am trying to get across" ...but obviously from all the reports and information that is coming out, they obviously have very good reason to feel unsafe in Zimbabwe.

yes - ok - fair enough - i have read them!!! No need to get stroppy!!!!

I'm not getting stroppy. I'm just pointing out facts.

ok then!! Well at least our meet up wasnt uncomfortable!!

Heh, I'm not one to hold personal grudges against anyone just because I might disagree with what they post on biggie. Its often easy to get a warped impression of what someone is like by what they post.

true to that - guess i am not one to read - which kinda puts my arguements on a weakier scale!! Anyhow!!

pixieflower - are you seriously trying to say that sports and politics should not mix. I thought that argument had died years ago and most people realised that they can't be separated. The fact you are south african may explain why you think that.

no justahalf - i just think it is silly that they were concerned about playing in Zim - that didnt even cross my mind!!

I totally agree with pf, this security nonsense with Zim has been trumped up becasue of the (fair enough) security concern in Kenya. Kenya might have a security problem but Zimbabwe does not . I know I lived there for 24 years.
I think some countries are playing the security card (as with all your before mentioned cricket sites) because it is easier to swallow than boycotting as a political protest. In Zimbabwe the government is totally responsible for the violence being committed. Therefore the govt is going to do everything in its power to prove the naysayers wrong
and prove that zim is a safe place to go.
I am totally against the games being played, I would way prefer our (zim) boys played in a neighbouring country and not forfeit or gain unfair points.
The zim govt is charging a ridiculous amount of money for visas (attainable on arrival) for all foreigners - who do you think is going to benefit from that money? The poor starving masses?
I think not.

Amen!

I thought the reasons for not wanting to play in zimbabwe were as much political as security concerns. Certainly many of the players don't want to play because of the political situation.

Well, I think some of you are obviously blind to the security risks that there are around these games in Zimbabwe. You are obviously choosing to ignore much of the information that has been presented.

NO - we just know more about it because we come from there (experienced it)..............

Have you been living there in the past few months?

If not then your comments don't hold that much weight. Even if you have then your concept of danger may well be different to others. Some people think driving at 150 kph is safe, most people don't.

So does living there in the past automatically mean you have all the knowlege on the current situation that the cricketers face? I would ask you again to read through some of the comments and reports that make it very clear that it is not safe.

Perhaps because you come from there, you have a warped perception of what many people in NZ, Australia and England consider to be safe.

If I was informed that there were going to be protests around a cricket match I was involved in that will more than likely turn violent very disconcerting to say the least.

pixiflower: You say you know more about it, yet you also admit earlier that you haven't read all the facts and details surrounding this situation.

JaH - Please understand that the present political situation in zim has not just flared up overnight or, "in the last two months" as you put it. It has been happening for at least four years. Only the economic situation has seriously deteriorated over the past few months. I have most of my family and a lot of friends (who were quite excited to watch the games by the way)who live there, so I feel my comments do hold a lot of weight. While I understand that peaceful protests could still affect the players abilities to play properly - fine. The people who will be protesting however are the ones who are normally the victims of violence - not the perpetrators.
Anyway, lets hope no-one has to forfeit points for the organisers lack of foresight, and try to just enjoy the games, as I'm sure it will be a thrilling competition.

sdiddy: I am sure that justahalf is well aware that the current political siuation in Zimbabwe has not just flared up recently. Just because we aint from Zimbabwe ourselves does not mean that we don't follow events that happen in other countries quite closely. You mention peaceful protests, many of the information that has been presented is that these so called "peaceful" protests could get quite violent quite easily. It seems pretty clear to me from what has been said that there is a definate issue of security to the players.

We are all very sympathtic to the plight of those in Zimbabwe, but there has to be the consideration of the players. If the players themselves don't feel safe and don't want to play there, thats the end of the story as far as I am concerned.

A number of zimbabwe players don't want the games played there either, not sure of the reasons though. Like harvey said, I am aware of the rising tensions over the last few years. The few months comment relates to the fact that the situation is changing so rapidly the security situation from more than a few months ago is irrelevant. I know that the protestors are likely to be the victims, they would obviously be protesting about the situation. I feel sorry for those people who are victims of violence who will also miss out on watching a sport they love. I'm sure they would be grateful for the message that would send to mugabe though. He will be at the games. Players will be expected to be civil to him. That gives some degree of acceptance to what he is doing. That is unacceptable in my opinion.

justahalf - good point i must say - thing is - SA is just as bad - maybe even worse - as i have pointed out before - so y the big fuss?

In terms of being dangerous, maybe. In terms of political situation, definitely not. Thats why I think its more to do with politics. I also think the SA police are better able to keep the players safe than those in zimbabwe and kenya, regardless of the situation in the rest of the country.

You are right jah - it is to do with politics - hence some Zim players do not want to play either - mostly farmers who have been through hell. Heathy Streak's dad was wrongly arrested and held for days in those disgusting prisons - and his farm wasn't even on the "wanted" list...