Chiacgo house... what is it?

I was checking out some older Frankie Knuckles stuff and pondered the Chicago house sound as it became famous and as it morphed in various countries.

Knuckles is probably most famously known for his big, vocal house tunes - a la like early Def mix stuff and the remixes of commercial artists - yet Chicago house is generally thought of as more jacking - along the lines of Adonis, Ron Trent, Farley Jackmaster Funk etc through to what followed in the mid-90s by Cajmere, Gemini, Paul Johnson, Glenn Underground etc. You'd think it'd be miles closer to this sort of stuff or at least Detroit than the tracklists you see from Chicago which look a lot more like New York and Paradise Garage than they do an earlier version of Cajual/Traxx etc.

Here in NZ almost every NZ who I've heard broadly associate themselves with the Chicago style seem to be as much West Coast as they are Chicago.

So.. what is Chicago? Then, and now.

Seems like a mixed bag according to the favourite tracks of Knuckles from the Warehouse era.

The this list doesn't seem all that different to New York at the time. It has the elements of straight-up disco tracks, European stuff, the gospel-inspired vocals of garage - but not really dominated by the jacking tracks often most associated with Chicago.

Some big Knuckles Warehouse tracks completely mirror New York at the time (Levan at PG etc).
Roy Ayers Ubiquity - Running Away
Chaka Khan - I'm Every Woman
Stevie Wonder - Do Like You
The Trammps - Body Contact Contract
Taana Gardner - When You Touch Me
Billy Nichols - Give Your Body Up to the Music
Peech Boys - Don’t Make Me Wait
Loose Joints - Is It All Over My Face
Patrice Rushen - Haven't You Heard
Sister Sledge - Lost In Music
T-Connection - At Midnight
Cerrone - Supernature
Candido - Jingo
Giorgio Moroder - Chase
Telex - Moskow Diskow

Then the early 90s version of his sound.. NB: Does this say Chicago to you? : Kerri Chandler, Kathy Sledge, Way Out West, Deep Dish and Alison Limerick.
http://www.discogs.com/Frankie-Knuckles-United-DJs-Of-The-World-Frankie-Knuckles/release/880104

Maybe because Knuckles was from New York originally he took it all with him.. almost makes me wonder whether the Warehouse was so popular in part because it sounded more like New York as opposed to the rest of Chicago at the time.

are you talking about what they were playing as djs or what they were producing

Knuckles/Warehouse defined the Chicago sound in many ways but, looking at the music, the general vibe was quite different to what was being produced and what morphed into modern Chicago house which is more jacking/bouncy/boompty.

That's why I mentioned NZ. Most of the people here who stand by their Chicago vibe aren't really very Chicago in the FK/Warehouse kind of way. We def are a melting pot of styled for sure, and some of the best known Chicago DJs play a fair chink of stuff outside of the Chicago house sound too (Carter for example).. so it makes me think that maybe the term Chicago is more like progressive (American prog) in that it doesn't really refer to a sub-genre of music but almost rather DJs who love Carter say they play Chicago house even if they have a 10% crossover in vibe. (I'm happy with things not being labelled at all) Kind of like me saying I'm a Garage DJ because I play some vocal tunes.

Knuckles and Carter have little in common except a penchant for cheeky, quirky, vocal anthems - is this the link which makes them both Chicago? Look at the list of tracks above - which ones can you see Carter or Cajmere playing? Quite a few when you compare.. Yet NONE of those tracks would really be labelled Chicago house. (Or would they? I don't know a couple of them)

Ive never thought of Frankie knuckles as "Chicago" for the reason he made is name in NY and simply moved to Chicago to play at the warehouse, He did how ever start the trend we call "house" so i give him that, but Ron Hardy would be the dj i consider to be the start of the Chicago sound. and then it the likes of the hot mix 5 that take it to the next level and so on.

now on the production side, there was a major difference between other states and countries (not so much in todays production but thats another story) and chicago, with its rough and raw approach

but hey thats just my take on things from what ive read and been told, but i do somewhat agree with you rob, some djs who consider themselves a "Chicago" styled dj wouldnt know the first thing about it.

i'm gonna go with music made in chicago eh...

As always, cutting through like a hot knife.

Fair call... so do you have to play it to be a Chicago house DJ? If so then that counts Derrick Carter out..

Either play it or be from there. Derricks back in

Also it probably should be pointed out that what things become colloquially known as is not always (or even often) what they were originally or are today ie Chicago House described a particular sound that was at the time coming out of Chicago, now, despite that particular sound being made elsewhere it has kept it's moniker. Also, a lot of stuff coming out of Chicago today has none of the elements we still associate with "Chicago House"

I think it's almost entirely reletive to who's listening. You say tomato and all that.

I remember someone asking Carl Craig if it's house or techno, he replied "Its all music baby!"

Jackin to you means swing to someone else, at the moment french means electro...like Georgie Porgie says "It goes on and on....."

On a similar topic, I was having a conversation with Proof on the weekend about what was the "Detroit" sound. I think Im still confused.

Ah it was all "techno" to them anyway

See Detroit is simpler in many ways - the music and the DJs from there are much closer together in style. Lots of epic, synthy musical jams crossed with jacking or loopy sparse drum programming.

But then again, I've heard Pullen and May play tons of latin-inspired beats (also features prominently in some Detroit stuff - 'Strings of Life' for example), soulful vocal house (e.g. Blueboy 'Sandman' - not Detroit but certainly influenced by the Detroit/Chicago cheeky side of house) and more.

To me Detroit is Octave One, Rolando and Technasia moreso than May. Maybe I just like this sort of sounding stuff so ignore the stuff which isn't.. but may have just as much claim as being Detroit as these.

Locally, the only guy I know who has comes close to having the Detroit vibe to me is Drake. I might own/play plenty of Detroit stuff - but Matt's overall DJing vibe is very May-ish. Choppy, spans heaps of grooves in a short space of time, plays old tunes mixes with new better than most... etc

only playing music from
1 city
1 style
1 label

etc etc

is real stupid.

I actually only play tunes from one artist. I even grew a beard and donned glasses to look like him and am hoping that someone will mistake me for him any day now.

Luckily for me Robert Babicz is pretty prolific because otherwise if I get asked to play a set longer than 3 hours I have to start playing the tracks from the start of my set again

Awesome ha ha.

I was going to say Deadmau5... but then again, MaW wouldn't be too bad a bet if you had to play stuff by only one artist.

Levin House is the one for me.

I play shithouse or shouse.