CBS obtains photos showing alleged abuse

Now this is coming to light as there is photographic evidence imagine the tons of other abuses by occupation forces that are hidden and will not come to light

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/

Good - i hope the charges stand and they get what they deserve.

Im not sure attaching wires to someone and telling them theyre about to be electrocuted is a huge crime but we will have to wait for more facts.

In america 2 cops cup a collander on a guys head and ran some wires to a photocopier with a bit of paper in it saying LIAR! everytime they thought he was lieing they pressed the copy button and out came the messge from the "lie detector" even tho they got the info they needed the convictions was overturned because of thier methods... i think its a shame it was a very inventive way of interrogation.

youd be a good facist bob

Makes you wonder what's been happening at camp x-ray as well. I'm sure this won't be an isolated incident but it's a worry that it took photographic evidence for the army to act.

What do you mean would?

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/29/1083224523783.html

Imagine if this sort of crap happened to US forces. They complained during the invasion that soldiers were paraded in front of camera yet US soldiers can make prisoners perform simulated sex on each other while they are naked among other things and get away with it simply by court martialling three of them.

Look what happened in Falluja once the US contractors were mutilated. A lot of Iraqi civilians have been killed and the fighting is still ongoing. The US have lost 125 soldiers this month all to avenge that act against 4 contractors yet once news of this gets out to the insurgents their ranks will surely only grow. 8 US soldiers were recently killed by a suicide bomber which might just be the start of things to come.

It doesn't surprise me really.



No different to acts committed in Vietnam.

What surprises me is how the US think they are on track to hand over power.

Styln, what the hell are you rambling about??

The soldiers who committed these crimes are being duly punished, a court martial is no laughing matter.

The battle in Falluja is not an act of ‘revenge’, the US has no choice but to defeat this insurgency.

Trapper it's a disgrace that the prisoners have been subjected to this. Beyond the court martial what is the US government going to do? Will the prisoners receive compensation, an apology or will the US armed forces do anything to ensure this kind of violation isn't repeated? Is this an insight into how the US treat Iraqi or Arab prisoners in general? Why isn't the government or military apologising about these human rights violations. 3 court martials is getting off very lightly.

As for the revenge of course there is a measure of revenge associated with Falluja. You like to call it justice or whatever but the mutilation of 4 US bodies would have no doubt pissed the US off immensely.

4 US contractors were killed and the over whelming military response was as a result of the deaths and how the bodies were treated. Months prior to that the US can fatally shoot iraqi protestors for protesting that the local school was being used for US barracks and can continue to make mistakes and shoot innocent civilians.

The uS have encouraged the insurgency by their tactics, by shutting down the local news paper etc. Iraqis have a right to be rid of the US and Britain and it seems some of them have less patience than others.

Of course it is a disgrace that the prisoners have been subjected to this, same goes for any crime of this nature whether committed by the armed forces or otherwise. The people responsible are going to be punished for their crimes and so they should.

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The battle in Falluja is not revenge. The 'over whelming military response' was not 'a result of the deaths and how the bodies were treated', it was a result of several thousand militants running around with guns, bombs and RPG's.

The fact that you think that the US somehow encouraged the insurgency by trying to arrest these murderers speaks volumes; obviously people should be free to murder others indiscriminately in Iraq…

No Trapper I questioned the newspaper that was shut down initially which gave Sadr an even larger voice.

Also I wasn't aware of any arrests that were made for the 4 deaths. Iraq is a war zone and yes people are being murdered and the biggest losers are Iraqi civilians. The US went in to put foot to insurgent arse.

The US are largely responsible for what happened in Falluja from the shooting of protestors protesting about a school bing used for barracks to a newspaper being shut down which escalated in the 4 contractors being killed and mutilated. I'm not saying they are responsible for the US deaths but rather some of their actions lead to Sadr getting power and more say than he probably would have had they not shut down the newspaper. So much for freedom of press and yes I'm aware that the newspaper was printing insurgent rhetoric and encouraging people to resist the occupation.

Of course the US should act to try and capture an arrest those responsible for the act but I think it would be difficult to determine who actually did the killing (I'm talking about individuals/ mob).

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3563660&thesection=news&thesubsection=world



news just in. The US are widening their investigation.



Obviously this isn't the worst kind of torture that some one can be subjected to but it does contravene The Geneva Conventions. If you are going to point the finger about human rights violations you need to be squeaky clean yourself. I'm pleased that the investigation has been widened but the charges against the six aren't all that bad. It's no wonder with idiots like this in the army that the US won't sign up to any international war crimes court.

Its not difficult at all, they have the whole thing on fricken video for christs sake!!!


Also the newspaper was not just ‘printing insurgent rhetoric and encouraging people to resist the occupation’, it was directing people to murder other people. This is nothing to do with ‘freedom of press’, you have been reading way too much bullshit propaganda dude.

The biggest mistake the US has made here was not dealing with this months ago; they have let the problem grow. Probably half due to clowns like you demanding that no-one messes with the right of the ‘free press’ to organise attacks on US soldiers and that no one messes with the right to ‘peacefully assemble’ AK47’s and RPG’s…

Trapper they still have to identify who actually killed the four. How do they know who they are etc... I'm sure those that were guilty had covered their faces anyway which is besides the point because no effort was made to arrest anyone.

The US can murder civilians during protests and get away with it by saying they saw shooters. The shooting outside the front of the school sparked the whole thing.

Trapper where do you get your information about then with respect to the newspaper? Perhaps you read too much propaganda as well. You did believe the US propaganda and lies that Saddam had wmd didn't you.

I'm not a clown Trapper at least last time I checked and I'm pretty sure I don't have an over sized pair of shoes or a red nose. All I'm saying is that there would have been a shit load less bloodshed if the newspaper hadn't have been shut down. Instead there will have been hundreds of civilian deaths as a result of the US over willingness to use heavy artillery and gunships etc.

I find the timing very convenient with respect to the info CBS has released. They were asked by the pentagon to delay releasing the information by two weeks to coincide with the lifting of the siege of Falluja.

Just goes to show that the US government us able to exert a lot of influence over US media.

Styln, please don't tell me you think these militants suddenly 'appeared' when that newspaper was shut down...

This battle was going to happen sooner or later, it should have been much sooner than it was.

its good to see that some action is being taken agaisnt those involved, but the disappointing thing is that its only happening as photos were going to be released, this happened a while ago but its only taken until now for anything to happen. There will soo much more and worse that is happening but not being reported.

As to the freedom fighters trapper is right they have always been there, and it was going to happen sooner or later, the US screwed everything up from the minute go and its because of thier actions that they are in this mess now.

Of course they didn't just appear. They were obviously always there but who knows in what numbers. Closing down the newspaper got them sufficiently fired up to kill and no doubt enabled Sadr to swell his ranks.
The US played into his hands and now the guy is quite powerful despite a warrant being out for his arrest.

Fortunately the US aren't willing to further escalate things by entering Najaf.

I saw some highlights of it...

Way too cruel and there's some pictures in there

Its a small start...

Now will the US address the concerns of Amnesty International etc in all of the prisons and camps of Iraq and other nations the US is holding 'prisoners of war'

As for Falluja, for most of the past year the militia has organised and virtually run the city. From directing traffic to keeping the 'peace'. The closing down of the paper was a foolish move, as whilst it was inflamatory it also had a tiny circulation. Trapper you're right this was always going to happen. Its the result of neglict and outright hostility on behalf of an occupying force on a people they are freeing.

those wanting more photos can click here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=109x8317#8318

power does odd things to people

a video of the show that aired on CBS is here

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Nomad667/iraq.wmv

no doubt styln, no doubt...

Of course these guys were killing people on quite a regular basis before the newspaper was shut down and before the arrest warrant was put out for Sadr (incidentally for the murder of another cleric!)

But don’t let that get in the way of your fantasy styln…

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No it is not. This is the result of a power hungry cleric who realises he is not going to have any real power in a free in democratic Iraq. As long as Iraq is heading in that direction this battle was inevitable.

Trapper he had little power before the US did what they did. Insurgents in general were killing people and resisting the occupation before the siege of Falluja but it's very difficult to determine how active his militia was prior to the newspaper being shut down. Sadr now has more power and followers than he previously did. It's as simple as that. Too be honest I think you're the one that lets fantasy cloud your views and judgement.

Found this today, kind of covers the issue nicely.

http://www.benadorassociates.com/pf.php?id=3955