Black Caps summer 2010.

Aiight, the test cricket thread is a bit of a mish mash now, so let's keep our upcoming summer cricket talk in here. First up the Bangers, then onto epic series against Australia.

2 new faces for the BCs, Peter Ingram has been in good nick in all forms of the game, and has been rewarded with a T20 birth. Andy McKay (a mate from uni, so I'm pretty stoked for him!) has been selected in the ODI team to bolster the pace ranks... let's hope he can keep his control.

Bond, Ryder, Elliot & Mills out due to injury. Lou Vincent also misses out- he must've been close to a T20 birth at the top IMO. Fucken Ryder will be out for ages too now by the looks. Re-aggravated his abdominal injury, and is looking doubtful even to make the T20 WC at the end of April. So unlucky.

As per, we should dominate the Bang0rs, but they're not to be taken lightly as we can see them performing admirably in India at the moment. A couple of players that can do some damage but as we all know their overall standard is still a little off the mark. We should win all matches (One T20, three ODIs & a solitary test) if they aren't affected by rain.

Australia will obviously be a different kettle of fish, and on recent form one can't help but feel we're in line for a bit of a hiding. I felt we were really only on par with Pakistan, and if they could catch they would have demonstrated why they probably deserve to be one place above us in the rankings. With our top order averaging only 30 per batsman (hugely bolstered by Taylor), we're gonna get battered on some fairly bowler friendly wickets by the likes of Siddle, Bollinger, Johnson & possibly Hilfenhaus.

Our bowling is obviously a massive concern now with Bond & O'Brien gone. And as the selectors haven't chosen the team for the test against Bangladesh, it's hard to imagine what the whole makeup of our test attack will be. I can't see our toilers Martin, Tuffey & Southee ripping through them - I think the 4th bowler (if Mills isn't fit) should be a lefty, of which there are a few around atm. McKay looks a candidate after being picked in the ODI squad, or perhaps Bates from Auckland- to me they're the only two guys who are quick enough for the top level. We can't keep picking guys like Ewen Thompson, Trent Boult or Brent Arnel who are lucky to get it through over 125kph. It's cannon fodder for quality cricketers.

I think we'll perform well in the limited overs formats, but will lose the test series 2-0.



gc.

Ewen Thompson being suggested as a test match bowler is a joke.

That is all.

Yeah. Unfortunately, though, he is at the top of the 4 day rankings this season.

:/

gc.

yeh, Bangladesh we should beat, but we have to be careful, they bowl pretty well nowadays so we'll still have to play good cricket.
Australia should pwn us, BUT, i think their are a couple of areas of weakness we can exploit :
1/ Slow thier scoring rate - i think its hard to argue that Aus implode when they are scoring under 3 in tests. They get impatient and often throw their wickets away trying to dominate attacks, which is part of their inherent sporting arrogance. We dont have anyone to scare them with pace, so we need to select the most accurate guys we can find to apply slow but constant pressure. Aus are also quite susceptible to good swing bowling. Slightly defensive tactic yes, but thats the sort of team we have.
2/ Their bowling attack - it's young and holds none of the fears of the past era. I think mentally our batsmen have to really adopt this mindset and be confident against them. There is nobody in this current Aussie side who can string together consecutive maidens the way McGrath and Warne used to, so there's always going to be bad balls to play. Sure Mitchell may have a good day and blast us out, but it will probably only be one out of the four possible innings. The rest are no quicker/ swingier/ cuttier than anything they faced with Pakistan, its only our mental preperation that will make the difference. Also their lack of spinning options. Hauritz is okay, but has a long way to go before he can wrap up a test for his side on the last day.

still hurting from the pain of Bondy and O'Brien not turning out for a last bash against the Aussies though, really would have given us a chance of at least 1 test win imo.

Don't go underestimating this current Australian unit. None of them bowl under 135kph, and our batsmen can't handle (overall) genuine pace. Bollinger can move the ball both ways and is even more of a handful than Siddle, who I already rated. Then there's the mystery Johnson factor, who could have a rubbish series but then rip 5 pins in one session to destroy an innings. And let's not ignore the fact that Shane Watson has hit the form of his life with bat and ball. He will score big runs, and no doubt chip in with the odd wicket just when we're feeling comfortable.

I don't think we really realise just how far the likes of Australia, SA, England and India are ahead of us in the test game. I'd like to say we're about 10 years off, but I just can't see where our potential is going to come from in the longer formats. So many of our batsmen that are amazingly successful at domestic level look stupid at international level. Sinclair, Fulton, Papps, Harris, Bell... These guys collectively must have 50,000+ runs under their belt but they certainly haven't given us jack at the top level. So if success in our domestic competition is no barometer of future international success, how are hoping to improve as a cricketing nation?



gc.

All of our problems stem from two areas:

Because we don't have geniune quicks (bar Bondy), we don't threaten quality international batting lineups. Also, our batsmen are not as well equiped to deal with genuine pace.

Secodnly, we don't have quality spinners, so we don't pose a threat on surfaces not offering anything to seamers, and we get ripped through by anyone who can turn the ball a few inches as our batsmen are not used to playign decent spin bowling.

On the plus side we've got lots of medium pacers

oh for sure man, not underestimating them, was more putting forward an optimistic view of possible "non strengths" in the event that we somehow manage to get up against them.



I've said before, i think we have the base abilities/skills available to us though not with exceptional depth. What we lack is mental aptitude. Guys like Watling, Guptill and Ryder look comfortable at that level, along with Taylor and Dan odviously.

How do we improve more? Get a team in the Aussie state sheild imo. It will essentially be an NZ 2nd 11, but it means in the advent of the top team players having a form slump/ injury, there is a squad of players primed for action playing very tough cricket.

I dont think we play spin any less aptly than other white boy nations, and the whole cant deal with pace thing is a load of crap, half our domestic players play Sydney club cricket pre season, where guys regularly hit the 140 + mark. Accurate swinging/ seaming pace bowling is tough for any batsmen to play, the aus vs pak test series is testament to that.

What they need to be doing is combing the Aussie competition for anyone who has Kiwi parents/grandparents who is better than our players, but not quite good enough for the Aussie team, then pay them to play for us.

I'm all for importing players from SA and Australia just quietly. Obviously those countries have a larger talent pool than us, and we offer a certain quality of life here... in particular for the Saffers.

Jase it's pretty common/obvious that our players, in general, can't handle pace. There are a handful of guys at the top that look ok against genuine pace, but as Grant R has said, when 95% of the bowling you face is sub 130kph, the step up to international is a vastly different prospect.

This pace factor, I think, is the sole reason that Andy McKay has been picked as the bolter for the BCs. He's the quickest guy in NZ atm - at least watching these T20s he appears that way.



gc.

Maybe the problem with our spinners is as you've said to me Jase, our pitches aren't condusive to a lot of spin. Meaning flighty finger spinners are the successful ones in NZ rather than wrist spinners who can generate a great deal of spin on picthes that accomodate them. Thus as Grant said it has the two fold effect of none of our spinners generating enough turn to be successful outside of NZ (Vettori aside but he hardly turns it great distances), and none of our batsman being used to having the ball turn.

Not convinced in regards to our International players. I still think we play it ok. And also, bowling machines, which these guys generally wack up to full tit and bat for an hour a day against. And before you say the bowling machine is no simile for the real thing, your right, its harder, as there is no build up to release point like real life, but you still need the same hand eye co-ordination to deal with it. All in the head i tells yah. I reckon you guys have your mind clouded by Michael Papps, the worst player of pace of any international opener in history.

TBH I think our spin and pace problems are just hangovers from the past. We don't have the right coaching at low levels to coach kids to bowl quick or wrist spin. And I'm not talking about one or to guys at the top level here, I'm talking about lower level general coaching. It's much easier for a moderately skilled coached to instill the values of a medium pacer or finger spinner while imparting what little practical knowledge he can on the younger generation. Line & length, accuracy etc are much easier to coach than wrist spin variations and fast bowling technique.

TBH it's probably symptomatic of our overall 'middle of the road' culture.



gc.

yeh, not so much the turn itself, but the speed of said turn. Plenty of guys can spin it.

this i agree with wholeheartedly.

the whole paragraph i mean

Other international players that struggle or have struggled against pace, just off the top of my head.

Jacob Oram - consistently found out over the last 5 years. Looks shockingly bad against anything short.
Chris Harris - could never make the step up despite averaging 50+ in FC cricket, due to an inability to play the short ball
Papps - as mentioned
Roger Twose - pretty successful considering the amount of crap he wore on the body
Daniel Flynn - admittedly it was Lee who rearranged his face, but that still hasn't happened to anyone else recently?

I think you're confusing the issue a little too Jase. The fact that they can't play pace doesn't mean that they have to get all jumpy and nervous at the crease, or even get hit a lot etc - it means that due to the shortened reaction time of the quickies, their horrid technical issues are brought to the fore. This is the main reason why guys can't make the step up - the lack of pace at provincial level means that they can disguise their technical faults with adequate hand-eye, but when you add another yard of pace they don't have time to cover those issues.



gc.

fully aware how it works bro, im doing speed training now till september in preperation for premier cricket next year, so am pretty familiar with the ins and outs of developing technique "hot keys".
If our guys are unprepared its through laziness or lack of proper coaching, as you have stated, somehow making it through the grades proper critiqueing. Facing pace has been in the game for younks, and there are many ways to develop and improve that ability, if the foundations are correct, which in most cases, are.
Agree that facing medicore speeds in 1st class can make guys lazy/ cover deficiencies, but any batsmen ive ever met is fully aware of this already, and works to compensate. Anyway, i just dont think its a weakness in the black caps atm that needs to much attention, we just need to learn to bat more patiently.

Ricky Ponting was hit on the head twice and the elbow once this summer to quicks, yet his technique is epic.

Exactly so how the hell are our guys supposed to do well?



gc.

because well nugget it out if we're hard enough. Im not trying to say its easy, but i dont think it warrents concern as an issue of current deficiancy within the NZ camp, which was how i took the OG statement regarding this debate.

From cricinfo commentry on the india/bangers game:



"the fag end of the day" Anyone heard this phrase before?
I can obviously tell from context when they're trying to say, but what do fags have to do with it?

ciggarette = fag

So have you heard that phrase before? Is it the fag end of the day cause that's when you can go have a cigarette?

yep the phrase is quite common.

Fag end = the end of the cigarette

Fag end of the day = the end of the day

That doesn't even make any sense... What is the significance to the cigarette?

Yes, heard that phrase a few times. I'm guessing it's the part of the day you can't do anything really productive with, when it comes to cricket I guess that is apt.

Fag´-end´
n. 1. An end of poorer quality, or in a spoiled condition, as the coarser end of a web of cloth, the untwisted end of a rope, etc.
2. The refuse or meaner part of anything.
The fag-end of business.
- Collier.

ok, the cigarette thing was my interpretation, but this should clear things up..........

Well it half clears things up.. I now know that it denotes a deterioration of quality, but I still don't get how the word "fag" has any significance there. Why does "fag" mean "bad quality" ?

That's already been explained. Fag = cigarette. What do you do with the fag end (the cigarette butt)? It's of no use once you get to it isn't it?

Ohhh. I thought JG had retracted the the cigarette angle in favour of something else but I didn't get what.
ty harvey (and JG)

Fag doesn't mean bad quality:

fag??/fæg/
–verb (used with object)
1. to tire or weary by labor; exhaust (often fol. by out): The long climb fagged us out.
2. British. to require (a younger public-school pupil) to do menial chores.
3. Nautical. to fray or unlay the end of (a rope).
–verb (used without object)
4. Chiefly British. to work until wearied; work hard: to fag away at French.
5. British Informal. to do menial chores for an older public-school pupil.
–noun
6. Slang. a cigarette.
7. a fag end, as of cloth.
8. a rough or defective spot in a woven fabric; blemish; flaw.
9. Chiefly British. drudgery; toil.
10. British Informal. a younger pupil in a British public school required to perform certain menial tasks for, and submit to the hazing of, an older pupil.
11. a drudge.

I hope someone proves me wrong here, but reading the calender for the next year or so, after the 20/20 world cup in May this year we dont play again until the ODI world cup Feb 2011. Ummm, WTF!!!!!

Looks that way. Lots of teams getting stiffed by weird future tours schedules. SA have a got a long lay off atm too. Seems silly IMO.



gc.

Only the NZRL rivals the ICC in sheer sports admin incompetence imo.

Mmppphhh. League and Cricket. They just happens to be my 2 favourite spectator sports ido. superbeat! sigh :/

So Ryder reinjured himself during sprint training ...why are we making someone who's coming back from a major injury do sprint training? ...for cricket?

Because you run at full speed all the time in cricket? Short singles all the time, running after the ball, running up to bowl... Silly question.



gc.

But why are we making someone who was only a couple of weeks ago batting only with a runner do sprint training shortly afterwards? If they were so worried that he didn't have to run in the games he was playing as part of his recovery. Yes, there's lots of running around in cricket. But I also don't think we need to have all these players recovering from injuries sprinting around all the time during training. How many NZ cricketers over the years have been injured during training? It always seems like an awful lot of players.

A Jesse Ryder that hasn't done sprint training for a while is better than no Jesse Ryder at the moment. Do we expect the likes of Flynn to score any runs against the Aussies?

That doesn't make any sense at all - if you can't train at full capacity, you can't play at full capacity.

I'm pretty sure the trained medical professionals are more aware of the general rules of rehabilitation and training than you or I, so I assume they had brought JR to a fitness level where they felt he should have been able to complete strenuous tasks. There is NO point throwing him out to bat if he can't sprint... one short single and it's all over again, just like it happened in South Africa.

Also, the reports of his injuries are very confusing. One article says abductor strain, one says groin... Both old injuries that they're trying to rehabilitate. TBH he has been out of action for a long time and I don't understand why he isn't better already, and I'm a little sceptical that we're getting the whole story.



gc.

Which is why we should develop, from a young age, 115-125kmh cutter bowlers.
We'd lead the world by "going back" to the type of bowler that was the world's best - Lohmann and Barnes.

They can bowl seam up on green tops, and on harder or crumbly pitches the cutters will be devastating

Afridi - epic facepalm

Yes.

Now if only we could convince every groundsman in the world to stop laying down tarmac and give the pitch a water.

LOL



gc.

Did anyone see that chic mouth "Fuck off" to the camera at the game yesterday.

Was a fucking crack up

Should be on "Crowd Goes Wild" tonight

Ya I commeted to *ReAction* about that. Amusing. Who was she? A shortland Street star or summit?

I guess this Bangladesh series could be Neil Broom's shot at making an international hundred! Who did I have that bet on with?



gc.

me.

easy $100

I hope NZ bat first. It will be rather dull if Bangladesh get out for < 150.

Although they have done ok in some of the ODI games they have in recent times.

Stellar start from NZ! McCullum runs himself out and we're 2/1 after 4 overs

WTF is happening with cricinfo!? It's screwy as fuck. On the commentary it says in highlighted black that McCullum is NOT OUT, but it has it separated like they do when a wicket falls. FFS. And it's not updating either.



gc.

I saw cricinfo was wrong. I'm listening to the radio commentary.

Ingram getting underway now with a few boundaries.

Oh FFS! Now Guptill is out. This is Bangladesh dammit.

Odds on Vetorri having to save the day?

Yeah man - they'd zoomed in on her once or twice previously while she was in the midst of chomping down this big hot-dog so I think she was a bit fed up..

rosco and broom to save the day!

It's annoying listening to the radio with these subcontinent teams. All the screaming and shit after every single delivery confuses you making you think something has happened, or the batsmen have almost got out ...when pretty much nothing happened of note.

Broom?

Ingram looks really good. I love it how he stands up and punishes the ball.

HAHA! I missed that bit... the 'fuck off' was about the first thing I saw when I arrived at my mate's place. The commentator's reaction (Ian Smith?) was fucking hilarious

For those not watchin.......Taylor went for one of his almighty slogs over mid wicket and looked like he proper fked his back. Not good news if he has and the Ockers coming

Oram & Broom smacking the ball around right about now!

ha wa sjust comingto post that, Oram is hitting every ball for 4 or 6!

Oram with his one game in ten performance. I want to believe... I really do.

Broom out. No hundred this time, Interbreed.



gc.

OMG Sky TV multi-room ad starring Vettori, Oram, Macca & Guptill. Appalling.

*shakes head*



gc.

wish broom had orams power, would have made 100 easy.

looking good for the rest of the summer

Bahahaha - you can't just wish for him to be a better player. He is exactly as good and as powerful as he has already presented himself. Incidentally, today was his highest score... First time past 40 in any form of international cricket. Average is less than 20 still.



gc.

Sean Tait - 160.7kph.

Woah nelly!

:o

gc.

Was a suprise to see him, Im sure I read a report someplace he had retired from all cricket due to being batshit crazy


Decent win for us I suppose, shame Ingrams catch was off a no ball cos it looked a beauty (not real convinced he didnt touch the rope/over the rope at some stage) Would like to see Makay given the new ball next time too.

And he has a shorter runup than Scott Styris

Uhmmm no he doesnt fuck you talk some shit at times!

Bro I watched Tait for SA in a ODI and a 20/20 recently
Tait's runup is around 15-20m
Styris runs about 20m
Tuffey for example runs over 30m

Dude. You clearly didn't watch last night's game. his run up is from outside the 30m circle.



gc.

Hmmm he's a bit of a no feet slogger tho. Bit like Hayden minus the walking charge. He'll get tested by quality opposition...

These Aussie bowlers will be far too good for us, I fear.



gc.

What's up with NZ playing on Fridays and Mondays when everyone is at work? ...and school has gone back so hardly anyone is on holiday now.

Yeah it's weird alright. Someone truly fucked up when organising our summer.

Apparently there is fuck all cricket on next summer too. :-/

Can somebody please tell me why James Franklin continues to be selected for the Black Caps?

Ian Butler should have replaced Franklin instead of Southee.

Apparently he's a batsman now as well. Although I'm not sure he's really performed above the first class level.

There is no possible justification for playing Franklin as a batsman. It's just INSANITY. Lou Vincent and Scott Styris must be tearing their hair out seeing him waltz out @ #5 for NZ.



gc.

What happened to that Grant Elliot fulla? Injured or is he just shit now?

25/5

What a joke.

Been injured for a while... been on commantary most of summer

LOL. McKay's 10th over went for more runs than his previous 9. He's getting some pretty sweet figures to start his international career ...I imagine that will all change if he gets picked to play Aussie.

What's up with Shane Bond at the moment? Is he going to be available for the ODIs against Aussie?

Apparently so. He's currently playing for Canterbury so they probably don't want to overuse him against such lowly opposition. It's a good opportunity for the fringe players to have a go and trial things like Franklin at #5.

Test Squad

Daniel Vettori (captain), Tim McIntosh, BJ Watling, Peter Ingram, Martin Guptill, Ross Taylor, Neil Broom, Brendon McCullum, Jeetan Patel, Tim Southee, Daryl Tuffey, Andy McKay, Chris Martin

Seems McIntosh got a reprieve after the last test with Watling, Ingram will slot into 3.

That's 13 players dude. I would say there is very little chance of them playing McIntosh, Watling, Guptill AND Ingram in the same game. My guess is McIntosh is in the firing line. He will probably play the test against Bangladesh, but if he fails to perform then he will be reminded pretty quickly of just how close Ingram is to taking his spot.

Likely (IMO) Bangladesh team:
McIntosh
Watling
Guptill
Taylor
Broom
McCullum
Dan
Tuffey
Southee
McKay/Patel (pitch dependant)
Martin



gc.

Yes I know it's 13 players, hence why I named it test squad

The story I read said Ingram would most likely move to 3 with Guptill moving down one.

With Broom being the scapegoat if they go with 4 seamers

Seems odd, but I'll happily concede that Paddy knows more about batting than me. Heh.

That said, It doesn't really matter what McIntosh does against Bangladesh - his lack of footwork to anything straight will mean he won't even get into double figures once against Australia. He's basically a free wicket against anyone who can nip the ball around over 140kph.

Is there anyone in the Australian team that sounds like? Oh yeah......... All of them.



gc.

The Bangaladesh ODI series was just about the most dull series ever.

Most of you kids will be too young to remember, but its always been that way for NZ Cricket. Us getting crappy opponents for our prime time summer I mean. 15-20 years ago it used to be Sri Lanka who were rubbish and always here, and then as soon as they discovered that cheat Muli they started to fkn beat us. It was horrible But yeah....we have zero clout in global cricket admin and that wont change

People in Australia are complaining as well. Their summer of cricket against Pakistan and the West Indies has failed to maintain any sort of interest. Barely 8000 people turned up to the last game against WI. That's unheard of in Aussie!

That's kinda weird to be honest.

Aussies normally love seeing their team demolish touring teams. Says a lot about how little people care about ODIs these days.

Well I think they like watching them demolish GOOD touring teams. The aussie media have been going on ad nauseam about their lacklustre summer.

126/4

...Vetorri to save the day?

Apparently not.

Time for McCullum to step up to be honest.

Otherwise think about replacing him in the Test Team.

Future tours programme ensures touring schedules are pretty even. Where we miss out mostly is the fact that we actually play a lot less cricket due to the shorter series the teams play against us, not necessarily the frequency at which they visit. Let's not forget that although we have been forced to endure a relatively dull series with the Bangladesh unit, it is very important for their development that we embrace their tours seriously. Also important to note that following Bangladesh we have everyone's old rival (Australia) coming for a busy month of cricket.



gc.

Simply not going to happen. Crazy thing to say. There is noone even pressuring his spot in the test unit.

Hopkins and McGlashan are not up to test batting - period. Any other suggestions are plainly laughable.



gc.

Did you see the article in the paper about how the Aussies have been playing for 18 months straight?!


The joys of being the most popular touring side in the world. :-/

BJ Watling.

Makes room for another batsman like Neil Broom.

A part-time keeper in your test team? Come on dude that is ridiculous!