Attn Proof / anyone - techno manifesto...

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/feature/142152-the-month-in-techno



Was wondering what you thought of this. Agree?

Also;
"The delay between the release of vinyl and its digital release should be at least one month. "

Personally I like this idea.

Unfortunately that vinyl would be ripped/available on russian mp3 websites quite quickly regardless so I don't know if delaying it would achieve much.

Anyhow some interesting points in that article, discuss here anyone keen.

Er.. haven't read the article.

But there is already in place a (semi) industry wide 2 week delay between the vinyl release and digital. It's been going for a couple of months now, and is actually helping a lot. Mainly because the delay IS small, so people aren't really bothering to get the vinyl and the do a rip (which, no matter how well done, sounds like shite compared to a pure file). And also the djs who are working the clubs are needing the fresh stuff asap. So vinyl is actually quicker under this scheme than digital... Not all the time, but it is helping.

AS for the Semi live thing. Well, most bands play pre-planned shit, so really, unless you're a music theorist which almost nobody is, everyone should just leave it at playing LIVE and stop being wankers.

Apart from Jazz musicians, most music isn't 'live' in that sense, so fuckit.

Er, you didnt read the article?

i cant think of any band that only ever justs walks on stage and jams up a storm of unpractised music.. both band and dj needs top practice/prepare. the arangements one prepares on a computer are going to come of the same each time you trigger it - with a band there is less guarantee of that. both are quite different..

playing "live" on a laptop is dead easy compared to playing with band members. i think the real skill in laptop performance is in the composition and the sound processing. learning to use the equipment and setting up your tweeks is not that hard once you got stsrted, just time consuming.

jazz is no different to any other live band except they practise a whole lot more. jizz is to clever for its own good..
haha, kinda like techno

i think the semi-live vs live argument is valid and engaging in it does not make one a wanker..

If we are talking about quality live performers vs cheap shitty ones, then you can say that the bulk of laptop live artists are the same as pub bands, both require very little actual skill. However if we are talking about proper musicality, then yes, you need to be practiced and good - both from a lead in point of view of years of music making, jamming, knowledge, experience, and the live ability to throw things around and make it a show...

I'm curious because NZ has never really witnessed LIVE electronic music really, we have had a fair bit of plod electronica, and a few occasional 'live' acts that I WOULD say was semi-live, and then the big mega 'dance acts' who don't play live but do a madonna, but yeah, not true live electronic dance... apart from Mr Flower, who is doing the shit live, as live as a band does. A computer and interface are musical instruments, in fact, they are the most advance musical instrument on the face of the planet by quite some magnitudes, so to say that playing one doesn't require skill or talent, or that it isn't 'playing live' as such as putting your fingers on a bunch of strings and some wood is pretty blind or backward...

I understand where you are coming from, but the real argument should be - those laptop jams with JUST triggering loops etc are more akin to advanced DJing than a live performance, but then that level of djing has more in common with a live performance than playing a track then another then another...

Ditto.

And something I am reflecting on / conceptually struggling with more and more as I look from my mixer and three turntables and its 'purity' and back to Ableton and its ability to take things so much further.

And then there is the ongoing live project.

I guess it's hard, cos most people who think Laptop performances are easy aren't musicians, or incredibly bad ones who actually couldn't play well live if they wanted to.

With anything musically, it takes skill and talent to perform well, no matter what medium.

However, I would also like to put together a show using an 808, 909, 303, sampler, mixer and guitar pedals.

for sake of argument - when was saving vinyl the role of dance music producers and labels?

The format music is released in should be immaterial, its the music that counts

preferably all formats released on the same day (worldwide) - saying that I am very aware this is fucking hard to achieve



saying that I am very glad some are making sure vinyl remains a viable format, for now at least

You should know that the aim bob is to try stem the tide of file sharing, which is slowly making it REAL hard to make it worth releasing music, even digital.

True. But then, people would also say that what needs to happen is a paradigm shift - and for people to find other methods of making an income from 'selling' music - rather than trying to control it through supply manipulation.

To stir.

What you're saying is that Westerners, especially the 'freemarket US' are quite happy with socialism when it comes to Art, but not other goods & services huh?

So basically, it's 'if I can get it for free and it doesn't hurt me then sweet'.

Hmmm....


As I've said many many times, what we are going to see (and ARE seeing - check Luciano thread) is that many producers will only perform stuff live in the future, exclusives etc...
The only problem with that is people getting the chance to check them out, so music will become free, and performances will increase....

So the people who go out to performances will suffer, and the yobbos who stay at home and contribute nothing to the world will still get it all for free.

Awesome

but it doesn't stem the tide of file sharing, not even close, not even a good attempt at - the moment a track is released it is probably going to turn up somewhere for free

artists nad labels are better to focus on what revenue streams are available and making the most of them - ie releasing all formats at once so as not to put any potential punter at a disadvantage and focusing on the one thing that a performer can rely on that pays the bills - performance income

it is well time that musicians and the public realised the time of making money from recorded music started its huge downward spiral years ago and we are witnessing the final rear guard action from labels and we'll continue to see this for at least the next 2+ years

give your music/productions away for free - use this to build a profile/fan base online... work the live work angle for a return....

there is no paradigm shift proof - rather a return to the way the world was prior to pre-recorded & sheet music - performance

Er, actually it has helped to slow it down, so yeah, it is working to some degree.


Anyhow, I'm not gonna get into things. We all know that it's bad and that this will force quality record labels and artists to stop working (as it already has).
We know that the more things are given away for free, the less people care.

So the more music is free, the less people will feel they have to pay for it in ANY way. So concert goers will suffer, bars will suffer etc. quality and talent will suffer...

Unless you're already big, but we don't want the rich to get richer and poor to get poorer (financially as well as popular wise).

Your saying this to the guy who has been trying to sell Pro-Audio software for the last few years?



I purchase all my music legitimately on-line, so the whole vinyl before digital thing is just a pain for me. 'Punishing' me for the actions of others.

Erm... mind is a little scattered at the moment - so excuse the 'stream of conciousness' about to unfold.

One aspect that ties into the 'manifesto' (which I also find to be ironic - lets try to break out of the staleness, but providing a set of rules to abide by) is that about mastering - one great aspect of the traditional vinyl release is that it generally meant that it had to pass by a mastering engineer at some point - a gatekeeper for the sound quality - and it was/is a form of quality control; mastering and manufacturing vinyl costs money, and therefore means that it has to be worth putting out (generally).

Digital distribution has removed this barrier - which is a good and bad thing - people who didn't previously have the resources can now release their music themselves, but also, people who maybe would traditionally be told to keep working on it, can also get their stuff out there. There is a lot of excellent new music, and a lot of shit.

I think the whole live aspect is a challenge, and I think part of the solution, or at least, the part I am going to be involved in, is the education of the 'punter' as to what is actually happening up in the booth. Watching someone play most traditional instruments, It is fairly obvious to most people what is going on, and are able to interpret that skill level for themselves, and include that in their judgement on how 'good' an artist is.

Now, technology has become a lot more complex, and often masks what is happening in regards to performance. Being asked if I can play a particular hip-hop tune, while half way through a live performance, comes to mind.

Does it matter if the artist is actually playing live, or miming? To some people, probably not - just have another drink and continue partying with your mates - however, this is the Techno Forum, so I would tend to think the answer leans more towards yes in here.

Do we need more regulations about 'how' we write music? Hell no. We need more innovations. What now happens though - is after any major innovation musically, everyone else want to be 'the innovator' - and how doe most people seem to do that? By trying to write a tune like that innovative tune they just heard. Where-as a lot of the earlier electronica was drawing its inspiration from sources outside of itself, jazz, disco, blues, and so on, now a lot of productions are really just self canibilization - which leans genres turning into facsimiles of themselves - as each person tries to make the biggest tune genre defying tune that still fits within self imposted 'genre' boundaries.

Er... and things...

Yeah, I hear you about that...
tho the masses will never 'learn'. That's their role. To BE the masses.
So no amount of education will help.

They just need to SEE it being tweaked and twisted and they'll be happy.
So when the technology comes about to make that happen, things will be happier for live performances.

As for the vinyl thing, it was set up in part to allow people in places like NZ or Australia the same release date as the digital releases, so don't complain

I don't really wanna get into this either... but it is a topic I enjoy and well an opening is an opening

people care as much if not more about music now than ever but many choose to get it for free, this trend to 'steal' music shows no signs of letting up if anything it should increase

it is bad in a legal sense and many more labels, distributors etc will continue go out of business as a consequence

the major downturn in sales has been going for over five years and is only increasing, eventually the only physical market left will be for collectors and digital sales whilst strong will never have the margins to support a industry like days of old

so labels and artists have to be way more onto it to break even let a lone turn a profit, capitalising instantly on any opportunities and focusing on their key markets and demographics - something many dance labels have always been very good at

as for free crossing over into other aspects of the music biz - not about to happen. People have no problem paying for experiences, such as a gig

this won't disipate simply because people can get an artists entire recorded work for free, rather I'd suggest many marketing opportuinities are now open without label interference for the astute player

and of course the simple reality is many whom once made a living in the industry will no longer

Arrrgh biggie just ate my post!

Screw you biggie! Fuck you!

Erm, interesting thread to read - I am glad you guys are keen to have some discussion. I will post some more later when I'm not frustrated.

Yeah.

Ctrl C before submitting. Standard.

Ah - other thought today - adding to the confusion.

Ableton Live Set.

Doesn't mean its live.

Live is the name of a programme.

Tricky tricky...

yeah, that one bugs me