Are you enrolled?

Only a few weeks left to enroll at www.elections.org.nz or txt name & address to 3676

If you're one of the 120,000 young people not enrolled please do so - its your future old people are fucking with

Voting only encourages them to carry on.

I'm not suggesting the youth vote, though that I would like to see, merely enroll

If someone young decides to not vote one can consider it a protest or a lack of confidence in all the candidates and parties- by not enrolling you're only seen as apathetic lazy good for nothing bums - ie play into the hands of the old and infirms stereotypes

saying that posting this to a bunch of tv obsessed middle 30 somethings isn't really helping is it

Im only repeating what Billy Connolly told me to say.

you been watching zardoz again?

I enrolled fucking months ago...unless knackers haven't sent me any confirmation

wait, what? If I know I'm not going to vote because of one of those reasons, then why is it suddenly 'apathetic' not to enrol?

seen as apathetic is the words I used - not a given

In my view the lack of youth enrollments will be used by some politicians and commentators to say the youth don't care, are apethetic and thus get what they deserve - not my personal view btw

and you sir are by no means young so my comments are not aimed at you

isnt it illegal not to enroll! ?
voting is optional but afaik enrolling is mandatory

By law, you must enrol as a voter if you are qualified to do so

a law that isn't enforced, or at least hasn't been in the past

I think of the 61000 people on this we are probably the only two people who will have watched that film, bd, and I was the only one who enjoyed it

dude how can one not love a movie about a floating head... its awesome

mind you I did find all that chest hair off putting

ladies do the right thing

Don't forget a young Charlotte Rampling getting her fiery biscuits out

stuff godwins law... biggie law #3567.1 breasts will enter any discussion within 15 posts or that discussion will go nowhere

Side note: I hate it how people say things like "If you don't vote you can't complain." Of course they can fucking complain. The people who can't complain are the people that voted the Government in!

^^ oi, no stealing from the greatest comedian ever

I keep forgetting to send in my signed forms as I moved house! Doh!

Not that I know who to vote for... I usually vote for Labour, so now im screwed!

you can do it online Just www.elections.org.nz

and its not about "your team winning" its about voting for them you feel best represent your views and desires for the future of the country

each political party has a website... and there is no shortage of views expressed online too, so you can do it all from the comfort of your lounge, or if an act supporter castle

Ha, honestly never seen that before. Thanks for lumping me in with greatness though

The problem I have is that they're all incompetent fucks in my eyes. Since MMP, policies are now so broad that you could argue they don't actually give anything away at all, so god knows what anyone stands for anymore. But that doesn't matter as 95% of this country votes on looks with a healthy side of whodidmyparentsvotefor.

Just thank god we're not in Aussie, where the Opposition has gone down the "we will just disagree with everything the Govt does" road to the point that they have lost any actual belief structure they once stood for.

They're not all incompetent - there's some really solid hard working people in every party

and for those whom MMP has buggered up the simplicity of govt, test your preference with this nifty tool http://publicaddress.net/referendum/tool/

For those who vote this year you also get to vote for your preference of voting system - even more reason to be enrolled

as for Aussie system - refer to the US and current republican party... and unfortunately this style of politics is becoming more and more our way too MMP is one way to keep in check the two party system... I beleive

Oh yeah I'm in no way bagging MMP - just people's care factor in bothering to put the 2mins in to understand it.

it would be wonderful if more people cared... but they have the option of not caring and that right also

its not a perfect system... but one hopes it is at least fair

I did, and they posted me out the forms to sign, and I havent posted them back! lazy.

Ugh, seems like a lot of hard work, last time I looked through websites their policies didnt seem that clear. I think I will have a look closer to the time.

Who are you voting for Bob d?

And I'm pretty sure our participation numbers are relatively high compared to other OECD countries. Shows that people still consider their votes to be worth something in NZ.

EDIt - this is in reply to Just*

One could say Politicians have a vested interest in you not knowing too much about what they stand for - the reality between soundbites on the news and actual policy can be very sobering

My vote - I'm not sure...

I'm a leftie (but not a party supporter per se) and usually flick between the greens and labour now my party of choice is no longer (mcgillicuddy serious party).... last election I voted labour cause I really didn't want a national govt but I was more taken by green policy and have regretted that decision as I don't think Labour did enough to earn my vote and their copywrite fart made me really angry (still does)... this time I'm planning to not decide til the moment I vote

Saying all that some of the younger party members (your lots generation) are fucking awesome - personable, believable, passionate, sense of humour, can work computer and use the web and if those old farts don't ruin them we've some stunners to watch grow and mature into hopefully fantastic leaders and shapers of our land - I watch quite a bit of parliament TV on youtube (I is that sad) and to see some of them talk is really something

a lack of sausage sizzle outside the polling booth with proceeds going to charity could prove very bad for the left, if one considers my vote of any worth

/rant Children avert your eyes and make your own mind up

Fact: There has not been a single instance in my entire life where I had an option to vote, and that vote would've made any difference whatsoever to anything.

When that looks likely to change, I'll re-evaluate my choice to vote

they're slipping and have been for a while now

still relatively high and something to be proud of, but if the young don't get involved we'll be as slack (unrepresented) as many other similar countries

Pech by not voting that will never change FACT

Actually voting has nothing to do with whether that changes or not... So you're right, but that's not a reason to vote.

Have heard this kind of justification from so many people over the years.
Sick of it.

I just moved overseas so need to sort my overseas enrolment out.

Yeah I'm keen to vote even though I'm overseas...

Unfortunately I'm normally even keener to drink beer so often that gets priority.

Sick of it why? Voting doesn't come close to satisfying any sort of cost-benefit analysis, it's as simple as that. It takes time/effort - and doesn't provide *any* benefit to me whatsoever, not even a tiny amount. Feel free to keep wasting your time though

You realise you don't have to be sober to vote, right? :>

Agreed. There is some real talent coming through. I have much hope for the future, not much hope for right now unfortunately.

I noticed National's North Shore candidate is Maggie Barry?! random.

Yip Im enrolled. Dont know who to vote for but I know National wont get my vote. Bob d how old are you?

Considering how much I just paid in taxes off my bonus/payrise I'm definitely feeling like I should take more of an interest in politics and how I vote!

That said, I think it will be another 'who is the lessor evil' vote this year.

hey, yaksha

how do you reconcile your "my vote doesn't make a difference" opinion with your signing of petitions and writing of submissions etc?

Because those things make a difference. When I write a submission; somebody will read it. It has the power to influence someone; even if the chance is only tiny. The more people sign a petition, the more power it has; so my single signature directly adds a little bit of voice. That's not true of the general elections though.

you vote in the referendum does have a direct impact on future voting systems - you may feel your vote is of no consequence in the election... but the referendum?

Also as a gambler, you know unless you're in you have no chance of winning, so go all in this year Peach and spend a few minutes being a solid upstanding citizen of this nation rahter than just another problem gambler whose fled the country

The exact same logic that applies to petitions surely also applies to voting, doesn't it?

Your vote adds a little bit of voice/support for the policies of the party you vote for.

.....

Nah it's a little bit different.. Imagine that to win an election, a party needs 10,000 votes. Now if they get 11,000 votes - that's cool, but those extra 1,000 votes mean exactly squat; all that matters is reaching the required number of votes to achieve what they want (x number of seats, to win outright, whatever).

But with a petition - every single signature adds weight to the overall cause, a little bit at a time. Even if the petition has a required number of signatures before they'll even be looked at by the intended audience; people are still adding value to the cause by signing once it gets past that figure.

Can you elaborate on this?

But surely elections aren't winner-takes-all? That's why we have a parliament and debates and votes in parliament etc?

Imagine that they get 9,000 votes, with 2,000 potential voters taking the same attitude as you seemed to in your previous post, feeling that their vote adds nothing?

You might feel it's a waste of time but I still have some (perhaps naive or misplaced) faith in democracy. Plus I don't really subject things I do to a cost/benefit analysis..

Yeah, but the individual votes don't have incremental power. They only have power once they get to a certain point. Like if I voted for McGillicuddy (sp) Serious party; it's just a waste of time right? They're not going to get a seat, they're not going to win anything. If, instead of having an actual party and they just started a petition with their policy values to make the existing government implement some of them, signing that *would* be providing incremental power to it.

If voting numbers drop drastically (because so many people have my attitude); then the probability increases accordingly that an individual vote can make a difference. If they ever dropped enough and there was enough division in society that it was realistic a single vote could make a difference, then I would vote So yeah, I can 'imagine' that situation, but it's not the one we're in is it.. It'd be pretty weird to act in real life as though I were in some weird imaginary world you've created

Holy shit. What the fuck don't you understand about this? It's *exactly* true about elections.


People who don't vote but are happy to live in a country enjoying all the benefits of democracy should fuck off and move to somewhere where they don't have elections. Might I suggest China, Cuba and North Korea.


People did and still do die fighting for their right to free elections, privileged white people turning up their nose at the "effort" offend me.

surely a party receiving 29.001% of the vote vs 29% has an equivalent increase in moral power to a petition getting 26001 signatures over 26000 signature?

As it is, it's weird enough that you seem to live in this imaginary world you created rather than in real life like the rest of us.

Explain then? If a party needs 10,000 votes, and they receive 10,001 votes because I voted, what exactly has my vote done, in terms of incremental power? ie don't answer "because you helped them get to 10k"; tell me what I have added by moving them from 10,000 to 10,0001 ?

Shut the fuck up. You're being a fucking moron.

You're equivocating... Moral power != procedural power. Politicians don't deal with moral power.. They don't get to say "Hey we had more votes than you, so stfu". It only matters if they have more seats; more power afforded to them by the rules and procedures that they live by. A petition only operates on moral power, which is incremental.

Actually I'm not. I'm making perfect sense and you're, yet again, you're getting your panties in a bunch and spewing off like Insanity 2.0. Congrats.

so if politicians don't deal with moral power, then why sign a petition?

Because exposure to the cause builds awareness. If people are aware of the issue, politicians will campaign on it, or help with re-designing legislation, or slot it in at relevant committee hearings or whatever?

Why do you live in a democracy if there's no point in it?

Every vote counts pechra

Just repeat that mantra

Your guru has spoken

That question makes no sense. There's lots of things I like about democracy; and I like that we have elections and the power to vote if we want to. It's an important right and I cherish that I have the option. But it's an ideal... In reality, it's pointless, so why bother? I don't have a legal duty to vote, and if it's pointless (which is my view), then that automatically means I can't have a moral duty to either; except if it was a public vote (then my name attached to it would have implicit power).

how does the same not apply to voting for a particular party that holds a particular position?

I.e. if more people vote Green, then politicians will think that people think the environment is important and they'll campaign on it etc etc.

no voting for parties both serious and silly that have no chance of governing can be construed as either you support the tiny patties policy or you're protesting the lack of choice you feel the 'proper' parties have

personally I feel the Great Leap backwards policy of the MSP was ahead of its time, finite resources and there rapid depletion suggest we're getting this via stealth as opposed to an out right policy without the benefit of actually being prepared for a world post cheap and avail oil

as a bonus they always published their policies in a pop up book - now thats serious!

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/bernard.smith/manifesto/contents.htm

come back freaks the 'sane' people have fucked our nation

I'm happy to be proven wrong btw.. Everyone responding probably knows more about politics than me, so if anybody can demonstrate that there is incremental power to my vote, then I promise I will vote every single year

Hmmm.... decent point :> This argument would only really extend to the minority parties (who are largely formed off the back of 1-2 major policy position), but still... I'll consider this a while longer

so then only vote for minor parties (that's what I've always done). I don't think there is much point voting for the majors.

strangely it is parties like the Green who actually have policy and pursue policy discourse over brain farts, sound bites and other headline grabbing shite the big parties tend to favour

the weird hippy policies of the greens of days gone by are now mainstream policies adopted and adapted by the major parties

but you have the right not to vote - you should (legally) be enrolled and the referendum question you asked before - refer to my link already posted

(oops, last post I quoted myself was supposed to be an edit, fail).

Ok neil... You've convinced me enough. I shall enrol and vote [for the first time ever]

I haven't read the rest of this, but are you saying that your vote doesn't add a little bit of voice to the party your voting for?

Yeah I am. Like I said earlier.. If a party gets 10,000 votes.. I don't think 10,001 votes would've made any difference (even miniscule) had I voted. The only votes that actually give the party any power, are the single votes that push them over the threshold to where they win the election, or get another seat or whatever.

But with a petition, they're not looking for a certain amount of people to be granted some procedural/legal power; a petition is simply looking to show people with power that lots of people care about a topic, and it's looking to persuade the authorities. For this reason, every single signature gives your argument more weight.

But, as neil correctly notes, voting for minorities (who typically have a narrow(er) policy platform) could essentially be acting like a petition in that it shows the powers-that-be what sorts of issues people care about. I still think it's pointless to vote for either national or labour; so I'll give one of the minnows a go. Probably Greens.

+1

so after all that rationalization about voting being a waste of time you vote for the Greens

I thought that with MMP giving a list MP with every 5% that voting for a party would make a difference. You could say that each vote in iteself is still pointless until a threshold is hit but meh I dont quite go with that.

are you laughing because you're incapable of following the simple logic, or for some other reason.

also, btw, you don't get a list MP with every 5% or there would only be 20 seats in parliament

i dont see how its logical to vote after saying its pointless.

and well duh, you knew what I meant

I was presented with a good point, so I refined my position Now I'm saying it's only pointless to vote for majority parties.

You were presented with many good points, but you only accepted one little one that you thought was a little bit ok. Weirdo.

i'm enrolled into sydney girls bedrooms.

Last day to enroll...

https://secure.elections.org.nz/app/enrol/

or for Davil

https://secure.bedroomsaussiegirls/sydney.org.nz/app/enrol/

thanks!