Anti Muslim/Arab sentiment

Do you tolerate it?

Why?

Do you contribute to it?

Why?

Do you believe the propoganda that is perpetrated by the media?

yes

cos I'm tolerant of most things except shitty breakbeat remixes of shitty house tunez.

No. I'm more into contributing to the anti-israeli/U.S fascist sentiment.

cos jews aren't the chosen people anymore and cos the U.S "might is right" ideology sux

No

yep, what he/she said

Certainly not. Individuals may hide themselves behind religion, but it is unfair to persecute a religion or culture that does not condone the actions of mass murder and destruction. It is unfortunate people have to vent their anger against people who are not part of terrorism etc.

What propoganda are you talking about? There's bullshit flying at us from many sources, from all directions.

Oh, and...
No
Um, cos it's stupid.
No
See above

Let me see. 3000 people died on 9/11, 200 odd innocent people last week, 100's have been innocent victims of Palestinian suicide bombers, the other month a gang of muslim Lebanese youth's in Sydney were convicted of systematic hate crime rapes of white girls, every day 1000's of very cross & grumpy Imans pour vitriol on westerners from the minarets of their mosques and STILL there not a single report of even a harsh word at a muslim taxi driver in Sydney or Auckland...

We live in a tolerant society, we should be proud of our society, and VERY proud there hasn't been any indiscriminate lynchings and mob violence.

The only people who need to take a good look at themselves are those evil radical muslims. They deserve to die and rot in hell.

and westeners who only view one side of the story rather than all the shit done to them by countries like the US over the last 50 or so years.

I think both sides have very little understanding of the other. How many of us really know where muslims are coming from and vice versa. If we could bridge the gulf between he two sides we would be at least half the way to stopping attacks like the ones fishboy mentions.

8 more palestinians killed overnight by israelis btw fishboy

fish_boy - ignorance is bliss..

Yes maybe you live in a "tolerant" society in NZ but did you know that after the gang rape commited by those Muslim boys, a group of Australian boys grabbed a Muslum girl and did the same to her.

Didnt hear that one in the news did you?

Did you know that whenever I tell someone my Fiancee is from Palistine I get the standard response, "Fucken Arabs".

Is it really that tolerant in NZ? Do you think if I post this a whole lot of Kiwis will be thinking "fucken arabs"?

Why are Kiwis so tolerant do you think? is it their ignorance? Why arent Aussies tollerant? Is it their ignorance?

I think we are still very primitive as a race... We like to think we are advanced with all out great technology but we not as neat as we like to think.

September 11 was a wake up call for this in my opinion...

I dont understand Rival, our brains are primitave?

Then the Australians have learned to hate, but Kiwis have not yet? Is that the next evolutionary step for Kiwis.

I hope not, I would rather stay primitave...

Well, human nature being what it is Nana K that sort of response is understandable, if not excusable. I don't think people particularly distinguished between the German people and the Nazi state in WWII, and given the fact it seems people are being targeted thesae days on the basis of a simply cultural matrix then off course they are going to react with fear.

It still doesn't invalidate the fact that our society has a fundamental commitment to tolerance.

What worries me is that continued terrorist outrages will erode peoples patience, and eventually you will see mass explusions, and objectified hatred. Then things will get really terrible. Remember, Osama and the boys might be able to hijack the odd airliner or three, or get 150kg of high explosives to a street in Bali.

But if the hatred they feel for westerners was to repaid indiscriminately by the West, Well, whose got the Bombers, cruise missiles, aircraft carriers etc etc??

Nana K, I would love to see a link to the "group of Australian boys who grabbed a Muslim girl and did the same to her"...

fish_boy: i'm amazed at the lack of insight you show. your comments are that of a typical media spoonfed child still in nappies calling it's uncle sam to take it to the circus....

for fucks sake wake up. the arab nations have been fucked over for god knows how long all in the name of capitalism and world domination. sheesh...

WHAT WE HEAR HAS BEEN CHANGED/EXAGERATED/HAS IMPORTANT DETAILS CASUALLY LEFT OUT SO AS TO BREED OUR FEAR AND HATRED FOR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS. THIS IS ALL A MASS CONSPIRACY TO REDUCE THE HUMAN RACE TO A BUNCH OF WARRING PRIMITIVES. OPEN YOUR EYES, REALISE THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR. WE ALL WANT THE SAME THING, TO BE HAPPY AND LIVE AND LOVE.

Fish,

They dont hate the west. They hate America.

And you are just as bad as them in my opinion if you think "that sort of response is understandable, if not excusable". I hope you are never put in my position.

Trapper, I will try and dig one up but it was a little while ago, and like I said, not widely published.

WHAT WE HEAR HAS BEEN CHANGED/EXAGERATED/HAS IMPORTANT DETAILS CASUALLY LEFT OUT SO AS TO BREED OUR FEAR AND HATRED FOR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS. THIS IS ALL A MASS CONSPIRACY TO REDUCE THE HUMAN RACE TO A BUNCH OF WARRING PRIMITIVES. OPEN YOUR EYES, REALISE THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR. WE ALL WANT THE SAME THING, TO BE HAPPY AND LIVE AND LOVE.

I agree.. Turn off your TV's and talk to each other..

Well said Cactus. Although you did not need to yell and rival, I think this is talking to eachother, in a sence.

Werd Nana K, this is far better than TV and News Papers..

It's all about the Media Revolution Via the Internet... Get yourself on some Chat forums and/or research everything you can, with a google search. The truth gets more objetive and refined.

;P

"this is far better than TV and News Papers." - yes welcome to the world of 'make believe'... :Þ

It might be make belief, but then again it differs no more, or no less from the "make belief" the media feeds us.

There's more to be said about forming your own opinion, then adhering to the carefully prepared opinions spoon fed to us by them!

But at least the major media corporations have a reputation of accuracy they try to keep, On a messageboard or chatroom anyone can spout off with some random bollocks.

point is: I would take more notice of what was reported by reuters than what someone said on the net.

the phrase 'dont believe all that you read' also applies to the internet.

And a google search barely counts as research.

You're ignoring one vital difference though, and that is that the internet is based upon opinion, rather then "selective" factual information provided by agencies such as Reuters.

You're never going to report anything you heard someone say on the internet as fact - and in that respect I'm in agreement with you.

Don't however disregard the importance that opinions of others have where it concerns opening your mind differing viewpoints and lateral thought.

Nothing is clear cut, black or white - the information fed to you be said news agencies may strike you as being reputable, accurate and factual - but I can guarantee you that this is not so... and you need only look @ how owns and controls most major media agencies.

Ohmy, that was riddled by spelling mistakes & grammatical errors....

3rd Paragraph .... "opening your mind TO ..."

4th Paragraph .... be = by & how = who

claims that the mass media are not dominated by opinion are crap. death to murdoch, death!!!!

Google is a fine tool for Research..

But better still is joining Chat Forums and talking to actual people who are in these situations.. hearing their opinions..

Like those of the Journalists, who can't get their stories printed because it's patriotically sensitive...

Talk to them and see what they have to say about a thing or two.. You get a better picture of how much the Media is edited and controled.

Trapper, I dont think peoples opinions and personal experiences constitute "Make believe".

Shaolin, hear hear. Thats about the smartest post I have ever seen on Biggie.

But back to the point, I see we have digressed and I think that that indicates that Kiwis in general have not much to say about intolerance because we are lucky enough to live in a society that is fairly accepting of all cultures and races.

Do you think that is a fair comment?

I don't tolerate it.

I don't contribute to it.

I don't believe the media.

I have the opinion that the US is far too involved in foreign politics. I am more supportive of the UN's views than those of the single nation USA.

If the UN was to push for war against the US I would likely support their decision.

I don't give a flying fuck about how terrible the great satan (and its mini-me Israel) are to the Arabs or Palestinians! No matter how bad, it doesn't give people the right to slaughter innocents. I'm so over hearing about the Arabs and their 'grievances'. Did the East Timorese resistance commit outrages against civilians in Bali while a third of thier people were being slaughtered? NO. Off course, the East Timorese didn't have a dark ages interpretation of a religion to provide an excuse for any act of evil they cared to dream up.

So they don't like Americans in Saudi Arabia, fine, bump off the King and his family, whatever, but don't kill my fellow citizens who have never harmed so much as a blue arse Iraqi fly to make that point!

So they the Arabs don't like Israel, well they had better get over it cos Israel has 300 Nuclear that say it ain't going anywhere in a hurry. The sooner the Arab states spend a few pitiful dinars of thier vast oil wealth helping the poor people of Palestine they profess to be so concerned about the better.

Nana K, you say that "They dont hate the west. They hate America." Well, I am glad you and your partner sees the distinction. Hell for all I know you both might even actually believe it. Its a pity the Bali bomb wasn't so discerning, don't you think?

Some people in this thread are priceless, it seems your prepared to stand around trying ever so hard to see the terrorist point of view while he kills your fellow citizens.

I don't know how much more evidence some people on this site to realise that sometimes someone might not share your rational, reasonable, western view of things. Sometimes, regrettably, you just just have to kill people.

Tolerance is a pillar of our societies. Its not something high on the prioity list of the those who seek to plunge us back to the 12th century.

So I suppose if you define anti-Arab or anti-Muslim sentiment as seeing an evil thing and wanting to do something about destroying it, then I plead guilty.

It doesn't mean I don't recognise the need for the USA to change its policy in relation to Israel in order to try and force some kind of settlement, or that the idea of a global Pax Americana, dominated by the United States and based on the values of the Enlightenment, Rationalism and humanism that underpin that nations constitution pose deep and difficult questions for those cultures that are threatened by that.

It just means I think that when you see something unequivocally evil you should have the guts to stand up and say so.

What exactly do you define as unequivocally evil?

It's all subjective innit, and depends completely on what viewpoint you adhere to!

The only point of your whole rant I can remotely agree with is that "people don't have the right to slaughter civilian citizens".

Having said that, both Isreal and the United States are one of the worst culprits. I read an article in TIME magazine where US officials were harping on about how the latest technological advances in missile guidance systems now allow a bomb to be guided within 13m of the target 50% of the time, if that fails the other 50% of the time it should be guided to within 30m - that difference of 17m means the difference between significant civilian casualties.

No diss mate, but my point is that your post stinks of hipocracy. Fundamentalist Islamic Militants are unequivocally evil for their well documented campaigns of terror & suicide bombings - but I say, Isreal and particulary the United States are just as fucking evil, if not worse.

Like their Arab counterparts they murder and bomb innocent civilians, but even more disturbing are the sanctions they impose - resulting in thousands of deaths due to malnutrition, lack of medicine etc...

It's a cause and effect cycle - the terrorists that are doing these things are doing so for a reason they firmly belief in and vice versa. Take away the cause, and so the effects too will dissapear.

fishboy - how can you solve a problem unless you first try and understand what caused the problem. If the US took a look at why the planes flew into the WTC the bali bombings may not have occurred. It seems that the US aren't interested in doing that. You also seem unwilling to do that.

What exactly has the US done wrong jah, what action do you think they should have taken in responce to 911?


They support the arab countries with hundreds of billions of dollars a year (in exchange for oil)

These arabs have used this money to acquire a lot of military which they have used against Israel often in the past. So in turn they support Israel with a few billion dollars so it can defend itself.


What exactly should they do?

fish_boy stated, mid rant:

Some people in this thread are priceless, it seems your prepared to stand around trying ever so hard to see the terrorist point of view while he kills your fellow citizens.

gee, well, it seems you are in full understanding of the american point of view then? so it's okay for them to kill our fellow humans???? check the body counts friend. the west has the worst record for civilian deaths around.

just look at afghanistan, they killed heaps CIVILIANS!!!

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/oct2001/bomb-o19.shtml

Quote:
What is certain is that the US attack has intensified an already severe humanitarian crisis. According to the UN, the numbers of Afghan civilians attempting to flee the country is among the “biggest movements of human beings in history”. Before the US action began, there were 3.5 million Afghan refugees in neighbouring Pakistan and Iran. The UN estimates that a further one million people are now heading towards Pakistan, 400,000 are en route to Iran and a further 100,000 are trying to reach the former Soviet republics to the north.

Many of those fleeing are already severely malnourished. The UN’s Children’s Fund, UNICEF, said as many as 100,000 Afghan children could die this winter unless food reaches them in sufficient quantities. A UN spokesman described the US military’s brief policy of airdropping food rations in Afghanistan—supposed to underline America’s “humanitarian” concerns—as “catastrophic”.

Quote:
Meanwhile, in Afghanistan:
Conservative estimates of Afghani civilian deaths outnumber civilian deaths in the September 11 attack.
September 11 civilian deaths: 3,122
Afghani civilian deaths(as of December 6, 2001): 3,767
The Afghani death toll continues to rise. Americans have been witnessed firing on women and children,
and bombing homes, schools and hospitals. Since America's might placed the Northern Alliance in control, its
soldiers have been terrorizing members of other tribes by actions including gang rapes of children. Food and
medical aid intended for civilians have been seized by military groups. Support for a corrupt, brutal regime is
harmful, not helpful to American security. Remember: America placed the Taliban in control of Afghanistan.

http://www.speakeasy.org/~arboreal/wib.html

don't go bleating to me about a few hundred people dieing here and their declaring someone "unequivocally evil".

The main problem with your stance is that it won't help. we need to sort this issue out and simply saying, "those people are fucked and we should kill them" is not the right way. can't you see that?

http://www.muslimedia.com/archives/special02/afg-civili.htm

http://www.sf.indymedia.org/news/2001/12/111862.php

killing yourself is not the answer.....

cactus_genie, you forgot one statistic

Intentional civilian deaths: 0

oh bollocks.... like they care! if they did they wouldn't impose sanctions on medication and food!

i think the "terrorists" don't exactly INTEND on killing civilians, just that's all they can to.

they don't have a choice, the americans do.

not to mention the millions of iraqi deaths due to sanctions since the gulf war....


Gulf War Casualties Continue Climbing -- Death Toll in Iraq hits 1.2 million


Iraq Says Sanctions Causing Deaths

Monday, December 20, 1999, The Washington Post, Page A-15

Baghdad -- Iraqi health authorities said that 10,295 people died in November because of health problems resulting from United Nations sanctions, the official Iraqi News Agency reported.

The Health Ministry said the figure included 7,234 children under the age of 5 who died of diarrhea, pneumonia, breathing problems, and malnutrition. It said that in November 1989, before the sanctions began, 258 children in that age group had died of the same causes.

The United Nations imposed sanctions against Iraq after Baghdad's troops invaded Kuwait in 1990. The ministry said the latest figures brought to 1,215,787 the number of Iraqis who have died health of problems caused or aggrivated by the sanctions.

POSTED TO NGWRC WEB Mon Dec 20 11:00:02 1999

http://www.ngwrc.org/news/content/MonDec201100031999.asp

now that ^^^ is "unequivocally evil" if you ask me!

Damn right cactus_genie....

Thats horseshit and you know it cactus_genie.

Those deaths are a result of saddam abusing the 'oil for aid' program and using the resources to fund his germ-war labs and his personal armys. Isn’t it funny how he can afford an army of hundreds of thousands, including tens of thousands of his elite special forces yet he can’t feed his people?

Yet he wouldn't 'have' to if he didn't constantly feel like his safety was threatened by the U.S., Isreal and other surrounding countries.

Saddam is a detriment to his country, no fucking doubt about it. But the U.S. is NOT helping the situation, moreover they're just as responsible for the thousands of civilian casualties.

Moreover, your reply completely ignored the attrocities the U.S. comitted in Afghanistan.

trapper - we've had this debate before. Your blind faith in a belief that the US does no wrong in the world makes any discussion pointless.

funny that the u.s. govt can spend billions of dollars a DAY on defense, but can't fix world hunger! which could be fixed with billions of dollars a day.... odd...... yet they get by... hmmmmmmmmm yah.

A Quote from Abdul Haq, Afgan envoy executed by the Taliban in Afghanistan:

"[The USA] is trying to show its muscle, score a victory and scare everyone in the world. They don't care about the suffering of the Afghans or how many people we will lose. And we don't like that. Because Afghans are now being made to suffer for these Arab fanatics, but we all know who brought these Arabs to Afghanistan in the 1980s, armed them and gave them a base. It was the Americans and the CIA. And the Americans who did this all got medals and good careers, while all these years Afghans suffered from these Arabs and their allies. Now, when America is attacked, instead of punishing the Americans who did this, it punishes the Afghans."

I ask you this? How many of those Afgani's that have had their families killed by the USA Cluster Bombs.. are going to grow up to be the next Terrorists?

I give us another 20 years.. before the next major Terrorist act..

hear hear rival...

20 years!!! You're overly generous with your predictions.

I've got it @ < 5 years.

The actions of the U.S. (& its allies) are attracting negative attention all around the Muslim world, as we speak fundamentalist armies are being built the world around, with only one goal in mind.....

and here the U.S. thinks it's making progress in the war against Terror, when they are just inciting previously neutral men, women and children to join the fundamentalist cause...

I agree Shaolin.. your posts are always on point..

Either way.. the pain and suffering caused by the US (& it's allies) will surely come back onto itself again in the future...

And now another quote.. Arundhati ROY, Indian writer:

"Terrorism is the symptom, not the disease. Terrorism has no country. It's transnational, as global an enterprise as Coke or Pepsi or Nike. At the first sign of trouble, terrorists can pull up stakes and move their 'factories' from country to country in search of a better deal. Just like the multi-nationals."

Scary innit!! Reminds me of an article I was reading, claiming that 50+ Al Queda fighters had sailed into Sri Lanka and have put up stakes there....

Big Ups Rival, feel free to continue educating me my friend!

I'm sometimes busy reading and debating on other chat forums, learning myself Shaolin bro, and you will know from Martial Arts that their is no such thing as an Absolute Master in any given field of Knowledge.. We are always students…

I just been studying all this since the WTC happened and now I have a Hard drive full of related documents and a few Chat Forums I reside on.. You would be amazed at some of the knowledge some people have on the Internet. They are all older people of 40-50 plus with multiple degrees in all sorts of knowledge fields.. I am one ignorant fool in comparison.. But you know this already..

rival: could you post a couple of links to some other forums? i've only been looking at this one, and www.bluelight.nu.

cheers bud.

I post some links for you soon, cactus_genie..

I just been dropped in the shit.. work related.. But I will say this.. The problem with Chat Forums.. is no single one will have all the answers.. It's usually four or so people on each forum that make them what they are..

And all of them have there slow moments.. it takes a long time of observation to get into the good posts.. None of the links I give you will have it all.. Just more debaiting and emotion.. like this one..

Well I havn't been able to get onto Biggie as my account was locked?

But here are some links to check out cactus_genie

Ok before you read some of these web sites, you should read this one here... on the Western Media
http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_media.html

Most of these are information sources I have off my Political Favorites Folder, not all forums.. but I have got these from Emails and off Forum posters in the past.


http://www.counterpunch.org/ News site Good Info and Write Ups..
http://www.counterpunch.org/links.html Links to many Information Sources..
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/dailynews/TheNote_May21.html News and Forum
http://www.bavc.org/resources/media/websites.htm News and Forum
http://www.indymedia.org/ For Independent Media Info
http://www.politicalusa.com/links/Default.htm (links to many)
http://www.corpwatch.org/ Site says it all..
http://www.opensecrets.org/ News and Forum
http://www.mediachannel.org/ News and Forum
http://www.50years.org/ (not a Forum but interesting information)
http://www.fair.org/ (not a Forum but interesting to read)
http://pub14.ezboard.com/bwarandpolitics
http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/2002/august/sb_global_myth.htm ( this is very Right Wing in it's opinions)
http://www.un.org/english/ United Nations Home Page Mostly information
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Foreign_Policy/US_ForeignPolicy.html (not a Forum but good to read)
http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa.html Lots of Information, I use this site often, (got off a Poster on a Forum)
http://www.gnn.tv/ Forum (yes lots of anti corporate and usa threads but some good info that you don't get to hear about)
http://www.overpopulation.org/ (interesting Information)
http://www.johnpilger.com/ ( you all know him.. Info not a Forum)
http://www.zmag.org/ (links to Zmag Critical Thinking Web Sites)
http://www.nologo.org/ (information)
http://www.internationalanswer.org/campaigns/resources/index.html (very Left but good info)
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ (very left and tends to have conspiricy theories but again it sometime has relevent info)
http://writ.corporate.findlaw.com/books/reviews/20021011_cassel.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/audiovideo/programmes/bbc_parliament/1671067.stm (links to UK Politcal Sites also don't underestimate the Talk area on BBC, interesting and balanced opinions)
http://www.politics1.com/news.htm (links to heaps of Sites, I sometimes read some randomly)


Yar I have some other Forums I post on.. but they are not all Political.. more Drum N Bass and a Taoist Forums really.. (not sure if you want those)

Wow, riveting.

Firstly I would like to address fish and say by all means HATE the terrorists that were involved in the attacks. But do not CONDEMN the entire race/religion baised on the actions of a few extremists.

2Wisted: I do not come to this forum for News. Pfftt. I come here to hear peoples opinions and experiences. There is no comparision to be drawn.

There are some really interesting comments but my opinion is that the Americans are involving themselves in a fight that has nothing to do with them, and the terrorisim is backlash against this. They have no hope in hell of launching into war against America, and hence the UN so they are doing what they can to raise global conciousness, (No, I am not condoning it, meerly making a point).

Part of the reason that the States lost in Veitnam was largely due to public opposition to the war. The public opposition was generated by the large amount media coverage of the war. The very vivid, violent representation to the people.

I think that this is what the terrorists are trying to achieve, in the hope that America will pack up and leave them to it.

I ask you, What rights do America have in the middle east? What rights to become envolved in this ancient battle?

nana K, the american idustrial machine relies on oil. most oil comes from the middle east. 1+1=2...

cactus_genie, again with the oil... You seem to forget that the Arabs want to sell their oil as much as (if not more than) America wants to buy it. Think about this; where does 95% of Saudi Arabia's GDP come from?


btw: only 31% of the US oil imports come from Arab OPEC countries, so it's not exactly "most"

http:
//www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/petroleum_supply_monthly/current/txt/table_35.txt

but trapper, they americans don't want to BUY it, that means they are at the disposal of the people they buy it off.

they want to HAVE the oil real cheap like.... scoundrels.... they would rather it be in the hands of there buddies, not their enemies.

trapper: also, what about arab countries that aren't part of OPEC? do they import any oil into america? are there any arab countries that aren't part of OPEC?

trapper, open up that mind of yours. America is the worlds largest consumer of oil & oil related products.

Their own oil reserves are rapidly drying up...

Much of their economy relies on oil...

Most oil comes from the Middle East...

You do the math!

just a random theory of mine here but I would think that the US would definitley want to buy as much oil from other countries as possible.

there is a fair bit of oil around America but it would make more sense to use foreign oil now.

Anyone played age of empires? You know how it is a good strategy to harvest resources from the enemy's territory first, that way when it runs out you still have plenty on your doorstep where you can control it. Same principle could apply to oil.

cactus_genie; look at the reference I posted to answer your own question.

Shaolin; To put it simply, your wrong. I don't need to do the math, others have done it for me. Look at the reference I posted...

2wisted; good in theory but not very realistic. In real life it makes more sence to get the resource from where ever it will cost the least. The pumps in America are already cranking hard, to drill more wells isn't economical when compared to importing oil.

btw, Shaolin I mean your wrong in "Most oil comes from the Middle East"

The reference you posted only eluded to "Imports of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products into the United States"

Perhaps I should have been more specific with my statement of "most oil comes from the Middle East". What I meant to sa by that, is that the Middle East is both the worlds largest producer of Oil and also has the largest Oil Reserves.

Your reference however did uncover one very interested fact, that being that since 1992 America has markedly shifted it's import of oil from OPEC countries to non-OPEC countries. (OPEC consisting of the majority of Arab nations, Venezuela & Iran)

To me, this illustrates that the U.S. has little faith in the stability of the Middle East region now, or in the near future - Which makes perfect sense with the probably war against Iraq looming on the horizon.

A war, which would enfuriate the surrounding countries (bar Isreal) and impact heavily on the supply of oil from the Region.

As such, in the inmediate to moderate future, the U.S. can ill afford to be dependant on Middle East Oil in case an all out war does embroil the region. It can't rely on its own reserves, as they are severely depleted, and non-OPEC countries will only be able to sustain their current supply of oil for a limited amount of time. Especially when you take into consideration that Asia is set to become the World's largest consumer of Oil by 2005.

Basically, the U.S. has a very real strategic interest in the Middle East for it's Oil. There is no doubt in my mind that this war on Iraq, it's weapons of mass destruction, and the proposed regime change is heavily influenced by American interests in Oil.


Now check these facts....

-- "The Gulf has about two-thirds of the world's known oil reserves"

-- Non-OPEC countries only have 23% of the world's know oil reserves"

-- "The Middle East and the Gulf are projected to dominate increases in oil supply"

-- "US total demand is set to increase 7% by 2015, while its domestic production is projected to decrease 2%"


Sources.

www.csis.org/stratassessment/reports/energyii81298.pdf
http://www.oilcrisis.com/nations/
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/ep/petro_trade.html

This is all very interesting but a little beside the point - I asked:

What RIGHTS do America have in the middle east?

Of course they have an interest in the oil, but does that give them any rights? Really? Or is it a case of bullying the smaller, weaker kid into submission? I see the US as the global playground bully, fair comment?

Yeah, apologies Nana K ....the conversation took of on a tangent.

]

Fair comment there mate, I don't think there exists a more apt description of the U.S., and its Foreign Policy.

No right @ all...

Do you tolerate it? Do i have a choice?

Why? The pro/anti publicity published by the media, is almost gagging us.

Do you contribute to it? I try hard not too.

Why? On a different level i relate.

Do you believe the propoganda that is perpetrated by the media? The only thing i beleive from the medie is the weather report, and even that is sketchy at best.

Do you tolerate it? No!

Why? So a christian goes nuts and kills a million people? Does that make it the christian faiths fault?? Nooooo! Same with muslim etc

Do you contribute to it? Nope, i actually say something to people when they make little comments about them. "Stop being such a fucken racist, people like you make me made" I say it ALL the time at work!

Why? Because this creates more seperation in the world and we need to come togetehr!

Do you believe the propoganda that is perpetrated by the media? SO YES ....especially the tv news and the herald! at least you cxan tell there's a spin on media such as woman's day...

No I dont, however when you live in a Global society controlled by American/Western ideas you can understand how some people can get carried away with this ideology. The majority of Americans dont know much about the rest of the world, so when some "Arab dudes" attack them, their lack of understanding, and differences in culture etc is significant. It seems that this leads to Stereotyping etc so unfortunatly thats all we hear as most of our media is filtered down from them.

Pfftt Aims, are you for real?

"Do you believe the propoganda that is perpetrated by the media? SO YES ....especially the tv news and the herald! at least you cxan tell there's a spin on media such as woman's day... "