All Time Aussie XI - Cricinfo

http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/current/story/414510.html

Agree mostly. Chappell over Ponting is a tough one. Chappell faced better attacks, that's for sure, but Ponting has been captain courageous heaps in the last few years.

Trumper and Morris as openers don't convince me. I would probably go Ponsford and Simpson. Perhaps Ponsford and Morris. Ponsford loved big, big scores, and I think that gives him an edge over Trumper.

The bowling confuses me a little. I'm surprised at Lillee/Mcgrath/Warne/O'Reilly.

I would probably go: Spofforth/Davidson/O'Reilly/Lillee.

That gives more variety with the left arm of Davidson. Spofforth was an absolute terror.

Please explain this!

Yeah thanks for shraing this with us Vadz. You could have at least gained some humour value by putting "ATTN: Maestro" in the title or something...

If you have a Aus ATXI and don't include Warne and McGrath you are smoking crack. They are by all accounts two of the best bowlers ever. Warne definitaly.

I will prob look at Chappell and Ponting in my team. Hard to look past the Hayden and Langer as the opening pair for Aus but yeah if I drop Langer I will add Trumper. Ponsford was nothing but a bully ... you have a look and most of the times that Aus got hammered he was never to be seen. No heart and soul in his batting.

There is also a case to be made for Steve Waugh surely? In the 90's he was a menace!

+ 1


Whiney little shithead does not = "courageous" Very odd choice of word that

Lots of 100 when it matters. Not a flat track bully by any account!

Would have Ponting over Chappell.

Ponting, great batsman, very very average captain.

Would also look at Mark Taylor over Arthur Morris

Taylor batted well vs. some excellent Paki and early 90s WI attacks

Chappell vs Ponting - it comes down to the quality of the attacks he faced. Chappell faced a good England attack, a v. good WI attack, and some decent Paki/India (nothing special) attacks. He dined out on us, sure, but so did Ponting.

This is my alltime England XI to take on that Aussie XI

1. Sutcliffe
2. Hobbs
3. Hutton
4. Hammond
5. Barrington
6. Ames
7. Laker
8. Trueman
9. Tyson
10. Lohmann
11. Barnes

I know that's a VERY long tail, but oh boy, what an attack. Two absolutely express opening bowlers, the best offspinner of all time, and two cutter/seamers with hammond able to turn the arm over a bit.

What an epic game that would be!!

No Gooch?

Would be veeeeeeeeeeryyyyyy tempted to sneak Freddy in there. Gives a third express option and strengthens the batting.

By the way that Aussie Bowling lineup....get rid of O'Rielly.

Lillie, Spofforth, McGrath, Warne would be enough.

No need for two leggies

Would definitely have Chappell over Ponting. Hard to see why any modern day Australian cricketers should make it in really... None of them faced attacks like a lot of guys faced in the past, and they also didn't have to face the two best bowlers of their time (McGrath & Warne) as they were playing on their team.

No way Hayden or (especially) Langer should get in there. What good bowlers have they really had to face? Especially consistently over a long time, home and away. None that I can really think of. Possibly Ambrose and Walsh, but I'm not sure how much overlap they'd have had in their careers. No 'great' English bowlers over that time. Middle order players would have had to face Murali and Kumble a lot more than they would have. I just don't think Hayden's stats stack up. Which is why I don't think Punter quite fits in either, although he is very close.



gc.

Just had a brief look at player timelines and Hayden wouldn't have played against Ambrose, maybe a little against Walsh. Hayden had a couple of tests in the mid-90s but was a failure. Wasn't til 2001ish that he came back to be a force. Might have played a couple of series against Akram though.

Punter would have had to face Akram & Younis as well as Ambrose and Walsh. Although to be fair his REAL success came much later in his career, probably since the likes of those guys have retired.



gc.

Indeed Hayden didn't get away untill 2001 when he played that series against India. But since then and accounting for his demise in form over 08-09 he still has a pretty good record. Langer I really added in their because they are regarded as the best opening pair ever.

Click Here To Compare

Looks like I have it backwards. How the hell has Ponting only played 22 tests in the last 8 years!? And how is his average from those tests only 46?

I think that's wrong- looks like it's only against India, England and SA that you have there?



gc.

Yeah only against the 3 major sides mate. The others was hardly anything to write home about.

Its the only teams that remotely challanged Aussie in the last 8 years.

Still makes no real difference. None of those sides had good bowling attacks... Nothing like Ambrose, Akram and co anyhow. The point is Hayden made his runs against average attacks, including the ones you've compared.

Overall Ponting has a vastly superior record, and would have had to do it against tougher bowlers... But I still don't think he should make it into the all-time XI either.



gc.

Just to be clear I'm talking about consistent attacks that they would have had to face numerous times. Like Chappell would have done against the Windies.

I'd hardly say that England really troubled Australia over that 8 year period, given they really only won about 2 tests out the previous 15 or so leading up to this year. 2001, 2003 & 2007 were smash ups.

VERY misleading stats IMO. Just because those were the sides that troubled Australia the most, doesn't mean it was because they had good attacks necessarily.



gc.

Unfortuanitly we don't have the luxury of comparing apples with apples here. So many things over the years changed like bats, balls pitches and obviously the bowlers. I think in Haydens wonder years from 2001 till now he would have rocked many bowling attacks. Lets not forget he faced a very fast and angry Alan Donald and very good line/lenght bowler in Pollock when he scored some big hundreds

I'll give you Pollock, but Donald would have been bowling about as fast as Kyle Mills by the time Hayden was at his peak.



gc.

Not really, its the only test worth mentioning when Aus was involved because the rest of the worlds bowling attacks was nothing but fodder for the guys.

Also, of course we have apples and apples... Ponting and Hayden played the majority of their careers together, and Ponting is better!

All I'm saying is that if Ponting isn't good enough (IMO) to make the all-time XI, then Haydos definitely ain't!



gc.

Botham not good enough for the English?

stop taking the piss.

Well this is not about Ponting vs. Hayden This is about the best person for the position in the team and I never said I don't want Ponting. I said I would have him and Chappel in my team.

Seriously, by 2001 & 2002 Donald was a medium-fast trundler like the rest of the world's bowling attacks. Mid 130s AT BEST.



gc.

Your right Im prob a good part of 2 years out with that. For some reason I thought he retired in 05 and not 03

Anyway ... would still have Hayden opening for me

So if anyone didnt read the top article here is the team after months of voting and selection.

Cricinfo XI's
Victor Trumper
Arthur Morris
Sir Donald Bradman
Greg Chappell
Allan Border
Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Shane Warne
Bill O'Reilly
Dennis Lillee

Cricinfo Readers XI
Matthew Hayden
Bill Ponsford
Sir Donald Bradman
Ricky Ponting
Steve Waugh
Adam Gilchrist
Keith Miller
Shane Warne
Bill O'Reilly
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath

Who'd he replace?

Yeah a hard one... Tyson and Trueman are similar bowlers, would add Botham in for Tyson, since he only played 17 tests.

Botham has the records to be there

Yeah but Tyson terrified the shit out of the Aussies, and that's worth a spot in and of itself.

They reckon he was quicker than Thomson.