All Blacks turning down bonus deal

Apparently the all blacks are turning down the $50000 bonus deal for the World Cup cause they have seen what other international teams are getting. Seems a bit funny to base yourself against countries 3-4 times bigger than your own. I wonder where they think the money comes from.

It was 40 000, but the NZRFU said they'd up it to 50 000 if they signed before they went to SA, which they turned down because they are holding out for an amount they see as fair, compared to other countries, NZRFU have gone back to 40 000 now...........

Greedy

The money is prize money for winning the tournament.. it has nothing to do with the size of the country.. The New Zealand union want to pay the players less and keep a bigger portion for their own uses such as developing the game at junior level etc..etc. I think it's totally fucked and they players should get a bonus of at least $100,000 if they win.

compare it to...
Tennis - for winning a major tournament - US$750,000 (over US$1,000,000 for the year-end tournament)
Golf - for winning a major tournament - US$1,000,000

And the rugby players can't even have their own sponsorships when Pete Sampras, Tiger Woods etc get about $US50million from it..or more.

BH!
Rob W

if they win the RU break even, if they lose the RU will lose 1.7 mil.

$50,000 works out at a million for winning the world cup so the comparision is not bad.

also you'll notice all of those prize pools say US$ not $NZ. USA being 100 times bigger than NZ, it's what youd expect. It's the equivelant of the players getting $5000000

That fucking dickhead Rob Nichol played this same trick before the cricket world cup, remember? Trying to hold the national body to ransom just before the big event... And what happened? The players dumped him and the distraction was such they did no good anyway.

Valid point!

Fuck I hate that tosser Nichol !

whats wrong with a $50'000 bonus ? on top of your AB & S12 pay ?

not bad for nine months work !

My point was not comaring what tennis and gold players can earn easily... but that the rugby word cup prize-money is about $15million... so at least one third of that should go straight to the players... not 7% s is currenly being proposed.. at least the Aussies, France etc respect that the only reason the cup is won is 99.9999% the players who are there winning the cup, not some bunch of old geezers rubbing their hands together at the idea of having lots of money to encourage kids to play rugby (more people here play it than in Aussie already).

BH!
Rob W

Going out on a limb here, but I personally don't have a problem with the ABs wanting a larger bonus if they win the WC:

- if other high-ranking countries are (eg. Oz, Eng, SA, France, Ire) gonna pay large bonuses then why shouldn't the ABs believe they deserve more than what they're being offered.
- asking for US$100,000, while high to us, is not when compared to what the other countries' players are in line to get.
- the talk of US$ vs NZ$ is not really relevant as all bonuses quoted are in US$; as is the case with most international prize money in sport.
- the fact that NZ is "smaller" is irrelevant when talking about the sport of rugby.
- NZRU must have shitloads of money after the windfall that was/is the Tri Nations (amongst other sources).
- Rugby is a pro sport, the WC is its showpiece, and the ultimate for the players involved. For most it'll happen just once so why not go for it.

As has been stated before though, my main concern here is that the players have chosen Rob Nicol to represent them in negotiations with the NZRU. The guy is a proven pillock and it's hard to have much faith in him being able to sort this smoothly.

As a last point, I really can't see the players boycotting the WC whatever happens. None of them would be able to walk down a NZ street if they did that...

$50,000 may sound ok but why should NZers get sweet fuck all compared to South Africa, Australia or even England. All the NZRFU care about is how much money they can generate for winning the cup. I'm sure Adidas will be paying thema bonus and I'm sure 'the All Black Brand' would be enhanced.

Your fact aren't true robw

http://www.sportsvenue-technology.com/projects/2003rugby/
http://www.worldcupweb.com/WCrugby/donews.asp?ID=439

Aussie can afford as much as they like, they stand too make 20 million +
from the cup

But deep down they know they won't win the cup Then they won't have to pay the players all this money

But in saying that,
if you in a world cup final it's 15-15 with 5 minutes to play, surely the teams that stands to make 100's of 1000's of $$$ is likely to find that extra lift to win

Neither of those links say what the prize-money for winning the cup will be..

Does anyone know?

BH!
Rob w

No the team that wants to win the most will find that extra bit of energy to win - money is not a motivator in a scenario like this.

Dedication and comittment is what required to win a match/game, the dollars and who gets them is I believe best left behind closed doors.

I really hate this aspect of sport - squabbling over the $$$$$ No doubt some fucker will say sport was the winner on the day as they pocket their fee - yeah right whatever.....

I don't care for Rugby but hope that a solution is found really quickly as the longer everyone drags this out the worse our sportspeople and sports bodies look to people like myself

This isn't totally related, but i thought it quite interesting that when i was watching the Aussie news this morning (on prime) they were expecting the aussies to get smashed by the kiwi's.

in the game this weekend that is.

eh rob

That sum could rise to as much as £303,500 (US$ 437,100) depending on how far the teams progress in the competition, after the IRB recognised the large expenditure involved in sending teams to the World Cup.

and

Instead of prize money the IRB is paying each participating Union a Participation Fee and it is up to each union to discuss winning bonuses for their players.

Geez theres some bollocks posted on this thread…………….What the hells the point in comparing prize pools in individual WORLD sporting events like major golf tournaments to the freaking RUGBY world cup? Sorry it just doesn’t compare

Also…………Rugby players are able to promote brands/products, just not those that conflict with NZRFU

AND………OK yeah its easy to hate Rob Nicol, but I actually admire the guy.

Dont forget that it’s his job to get the best deal possible for the players and he ultimately operates under their instructions.

If Tana was sitting there saying “Im not going to the Cup unless I get my coin” we would all hate Tana ……………….not good for the All Blacks, so Rob is the guy who has to make out like its all his great idea.

Hellava job too……. I wouldn’t go to the pub with him

I think money can be a motivater for some teams

this saga needs to be settled quickly so the AB's can get there minds back on the job, before it turns ugly

Money should never be relied on as a motivator. It should merely be used to reward someone for performing. The abs never had to rely on money in the past to motivate them so why now? They should be able tto motivate themselves any way but some kind of bonus would be nice so that their efforts can be rewarded.

I cannot believe you have any time for Rob Nichol Maestro. I wouldn't give him the time of day. Why? Because he is not only a failure in his appointed role - he got dumped by the cricket players when he allowed the fiasco of thier world cup payments get out of hand, but what is worse - he is a confirmed failure.

Why is Rob Nichol a confirmed failure? Simple. He is using exactly the same pig headed, high handed and arrogant negotiating style that failed so abysmally when he tried it with NZ cricket. Once again, he is using a world cup tournament to attempt to blackmail the governing body into caving into outrageous demands.

The outcome will be the same. The player will either dump him and sign, or they will be replaced. To me, anyone like Rob Nichol who exhibits his apparent inability to learn from past negotiating failures is a miserable block head, not a savvy negotiator.

Like with NZ Cricket, the players are asking for money that if granted to them would have enormous ramifications across the game. New Zealand rugby can't afford much more than it already plays to top players. The NZRFU is aiming to have cash reserves of 50 million by the time the Murdoch deal expires next year. It is unlikely that Murdoch will give us 650 odd million for the next ten years of rugby coverage, that price was the result of an overheated sports market. So the rugby Union knows that the worst case scenario is Murdoch (who now fully controls the sports TV market) will offer $1 more than free to air TV can pay. It needs the cash reserves for player retention and development.

If the All Black jersey is really what its all about, the matter of 40k shouldn't even feature on the horizon for a bunch who get paid on average 15-20 times the average income in N.Z.

Most 20-26 year olds I know earn around 35-55k. With that they have to pay tax, pay off a student loan, pay for and/or run a car, afford rent and power and food and save a bit and still try to have a life. The All Blacks, if they don't sign the deal, are just a bunch of selfish, over-paid dickheads with over inflated ego's.

Come on fish_boy……… I know for a fact from other posts you have made on here that you know more about negotiating at a corporate level than that

All the “look at us dumping bad-guy Rob Nicol and sending in good-guy Fleming as the ultimate gesture at the 11th hour” didn’t fool me for a second. You will find Mr Nicol is still CEO of The Cricket Players Association, his dumping was just a final ploy because they had been clearly out maneuvered by Snedden (who manipulated the media beautifully)

OK it might seem like Im contradicting myself there as Rob did lose that battle, but Sneds is very astute and the scales were already considerably tipped his favour.

But if Nicol is SUCH a loser and failed so miserably, why is he still (he was head of NZR players Ass before NZC) representing the boof heads, our nations most precious sporting figures?

The fact that you dislike him is the emotional manifestation of what a good job he does. Its his job to be a Mr Unpopular

And look at him. What is he ……………..28ish?

I agree he will most probably be dumped again but we wont have heard the last of Mr Rob Nicol

Probably cause they couldn't sack him maestro. I agree with FB, I have little time for Rob Nichol. His job is not to be unpopular, and my comments come from a background of high level involvement in a very successful union. Public support is critical in situations like this and nichol is hopeless at it.

yeah Rob Nicol is turning our small country into greedy sportsstars

WTF JAH!!?? ………..well then you are both a couple of farkin clueless banana brains then aren’t you?

If Rob Nicol is telling you wowsers what you want to hear, or not what you want to hear but in a tone you find palatable, then he is not representing the needs of players adequately

Don’t get me wrong …………Im not saying he’s doing a perfect job, but he’s doing a very difficult job and he’s not getting the arse from his employeer.

Its not Rob Nicol you lot should be directing your disdain at……………it’s the players

I think that's wrong. I read it as being an amount which will be paid for costs/expenditure depending on how long teams stay (i.e. are still in the tournament..). This makes no reference to prize-money except in the paragraph below which only mentions prize-money up to the semi's I think.. The winner of tournaments are usually paid well in excess of double the runner up, who in turn is paid double the semifinalists.

BH!
Rob W

I personally feel that the All Blacks should be paid more to participate by the organisers than other teams... as they are the benchmark for Rugby quality and have been for many years.. they are the most recognisable team also.. this is no different to Ferarri in Formula One, who are paid a larger share of the profits as it's deemed important to keep them in F1 over any other team.

I think they should say 'fuck it', pay us this or else. It wold ruin the tournaments revenue as no-one would consider it a true world without the best (on average over the past 50 years) team present.

BH!
Rob W

I wonder the role the players agents have in this. One was saying how united the players are over this issue. I remember exactly the same words being used by nichol over the cricket saga.

In the end the outcome with this will be the same as in the cricket, the NZRFU will win and the players will look bad in the eyes of the public. Sure nichols job is to get what he can for the players, but he will do that by getting the public onside, not offside.

btw, I think this is you shit stirring again.

rob - THERE IS NO PRIZE MONEY. Is that simple enough. It says so in the article I linked to. NZ will actually lose money as the costs are more than the participating money.

Also, the tournament would go ahead happily without the AB's just like the 187 one did without the springboks.

Bit more info on this. The NZRFU have contracts with bonuses for winning the world cup that add up to about $2.8 million. Based on that a payment of around $100,000 per player is not unreasonable to ask for.

THEY SHOULD STOP CRYING AND PLAY THE GAME

Im REALY undecide on this issue...

on one hand I think they deserve to be paid in line with what other teams get for winning major sporting events....obviously on a scaled version IE:theres no way we can compare the $$$$ to soccer.
after the way they have been playing they look like they hold the upper hand cos they are playing like they are worth that much.


on the other hand I say what the fuck are the cry babies winging about $300K a year PLUS everything else that goes with beiong an AB !

the jersey is built on over 100 years of tradition and values and pulling the shirt on is not measuered in a monetry status.....they love to play the game, they dont do it cos they need a job and pay check, they do it cos they love the game, money should come 2nd after being an AB.

theres planty of people that would happily represent their country for ZERO dollars.

Im sitting on the fence here now.......

I can see this getting ugly

the only reason the NZRFU doesn't want to pay more than $50 000, because they know, unlike all these other teams we are actually gonna win the cup & they'll have to pay out...

How the hell are the IRB and RWC Ltd ever gonna take NZ seriously again as a country to stage the WC when the NZRU act like this against their own players in regards to bonuses.

Every other country can see the benefit of keeping their players on-line to win the WC; why can't the NZRU.

It's time they took their fuckin blinkers off and saw the big picture, instead of acting as the small-minded dickheads they appear to be.

I can see the newspaper headline now

New Zealand lose World Cup final - Bonus not big enough

It's all very well for all these random countries to offer the big bucks for a win, but they arent going to win are they :p so their offers don't really mean anything, they could offer $1,000,000 a player and it wouldnt cost them a cent.

The NZRFU can easily afford $120,000 per player. The world cup is the most prestigious trophy for rugby and they will get huge money out of endorsements etc as a result of winning it.

Clearly the NZRFU are a bunch of tight arses as evidenced by them throwing away our right to hold world cup matches in NZ.

I disagree with the comment that they are tight arses...

I watched Murray deaker last night on Sky, he interviewed Chris Moller, not a staged interview but a random apear out of no where interview to catch him off guard..

he seems VERY onto it in regards to NZ rugby and where that money goes...

the tournament is going to cost us $400'000 MINIMUM ! thats for flights,accom,meals,clothing,wages!, everything that goes with taking 30-40 people to another country for a month...

any money we receive fom the tournament in terms of endorsments etc... has to be split over ALL NZ rugby so future WC campaigns can me launched...

Deaker asked why not take the cash from our off shore investments,money made from previous AB teams and investments...

the answer is THAT money doesnt belong to THESE All Blacks.

at the end of the day I think $50'000 is bloody good on top of your salary !

Couple of other points. In aussie and the UK winning the world cup is worth a lot more as they are competing against other sports for sponsorship/coverage more. In NZ its the national sport and world cup or no world cup the AB's are the biggest name in the sport. It therefore makes sense for the bonuses to be less.

Also, after the deal dor the super12/tri nations etc runs out the new deal will be a lot lower, yet the NZRFU will have to still pay similar salaries to stop people going overseas. They therefore need a lot in the bank.

This is a very complicated issue, and like richy, I can see both sides and choosing to sit on the fence.

With reserves of $24 odd million and a another cash bonanza coming up in two years with the super 12/tri-nations it's hard to side with the union on this.

The players have all the power here, hopefully we see a token gesture of goodwill from them and accept a little less than the $120k they want and then we can actually get on with the important business of winning the cup.

Richy you are welcome to disagree with my comments on the NZRFU being tight arses but we all saw how they handled the world cup. They didn't want to lose any money and so threw away our chances of holding it.

The NZRFU have loads of cash and spending a bit more on bonuses would be money well spent. The NZ public have already been denied the chance to watch the Abs in NZ during the World Cup. Maybe they should have cleared out more of the NZRFU over the initial cup debacle. All they seem to see rugby as is a business. It's more than that.

Bad_seed very well said.

Jesus Christ Stylin!! ... i didn't realise i was agreeing with you otherwise i would have changed my opinion (joking), i thought it would be a cold day in hell before we agreed on something




[makes note to remember to always read other peoples posts to establish which is the correct side to take]

You two need to read my post.

The cash reserves are needed as the next super12/tri nations deal will be a LOT less than the current one.

Yes bad_seed it is pretty amazing that we can agree on something. Sure it's probably a one off thing.

justahalf I'm sick to death of the tri nations being played every year and the super 12 isn't the be all and end all. I'm sure the powers to be will negotiate a decent deal but who says we have to continue with the status quo?

and my post regarding what Moller said about those $$$$ assets in off shore accts...

that money has been built up from smart investments in the stock market and its there for when its needed in the future(see jah's post)

AND to hold onto ALL our players/coaches etc.....

its not as simple as "weve got 24 mil,how much can we throw about"

again,Im on the fence but this is the question I ask.....

is the request for 120K from the mouths of the AB's ?

I mean, I cant imagine Rocokoko saying " I want 120K or I wont play rugby for the All Blacks"

those reserves don't mean dick if the NZRFU alienate all the players to the point where they bugger off somewhere they are respected and paid what they think they're worth - Team NZ anyone?

My father coached Canterbury from 93 to 97 and was approached to coach for the World Rebel Rugby organisation or what ever it was called. The money was significantly better than what coaches are offered now and the money being offered to players was also significantly better.

I suppose we can thank Jeff Wilson and Josh Kronfeld for how things have turned out but there is nothing to say that players have to stick with the status quo.

Good question Richy whether the demand for extra cash is being driven by the abs or the head of the players association Rob Nichol or various other agents.

No Justahalf you need to read my post, the next deal is certainly going to be MORE than the last, what makes you think it is going to be less?

Because subscriber networks paid way more money than they could afford in the late 90's and new deals being negotiated worldwide are almost always way lower now than they were then. Basically the income expected wasn't generated and they need to recoup their losses. Expect the deal to not be that much higher than 50% of the current deal. NZRFU know this and thats why they need the $50 million in reserve at the end of the current deal.

styln - thank jock hobbs actually. He was the main reason the rebel circuit never got off the ground. He was a legend in convincing players to stay with the establishment.

ummm...i dont know if ne ones said this already....

but there is actually no prize money for winning the rugby world cup, which i find rather weird

perhaps all the major nations should stage a revolt and set up their own competition. The IRB are wankers and are just trying to fill their coffers.

I posted this is in The Lounge as well, it was stated either on Holmes or Breakfast, I can't rememeber which one I saw it on,the average salary of an All Black is $300,000! I think they should stop their fucken moaning at being offered 40-50K!

dude, its the players association thats asking for the $$$$ not the actual players themselves, what will happen is the agents will go back to the team and say "this is how much your getting" and they will say 'sweet', no matter how much it is cos at the end of the day they are All Blacks and that alone is priceless !

as Ian Jones said " they are professional sports people and its their rights to be able to negotiate whatever deal they wish"

the same way you or I negotiate deals with our employers over salary/bonus etc...

PAY THEM!!!

If they win the world cup they deserve it. The pleasure they bring to NZ is immeasurable......we are lucky to have them.

And if they win...and win in the style they have over the past couple of weeks they will deserve every penny.

I was in Australia all last week. The hype around the All Blacks was extreme. Do you think there are many other times the Australians even think about us? The All Blacks give NZ profile like pretty much no other entity.

WHat other sports teams in any code can pack out stadiums wherever they go...which the AB's do.

When in the UK they are front and back page news. In France they play 10 games at 10 packed stadiums. Australia...Wales....Scotland...Argentina...Italy.

$100000 is what a world cup victory is easily worth in benifets to both NZ's profile and to our nations psyche.

For the record. there is no prize money for the world cup either.

Still no light at the end of the tunnel


No Word On All Blacks Talks
30/07/2003 09:38 AM IRN

The New Zealand Rugby Union and the Players Association remain locked in mediation.

There has been no word from either party since they went into talks at two o'clock on Tuesday.

An NZRU spokesman said talks went well into the night and into Wednesday.

The players are lobbying for a larger bonus should they win the World Cup

Ah yes, the mana of the silver fern. Pulling on the Black jersey is everything. 100 years of tradition. What a fucking total bunch of lying bollocks from the All Blacks, eh?

I think NZ Rugby gets too much emphasis anyway, they already get paid plenty, these are people that without rugby skills would probably be picking your rubbish up off the curb.

in case you didnt know, Jerry Collins does exactly that ! picks up rubbish as a job ! for the Porirua city council......(not sure if its full time anymore but I remember an article in the Dom Post a few months ago talking about how he still does the rubbish run and goes to his clubs games and runs the water bottles out to players on the field)

loads of professional rugby players have/had jobs that are 'normal' its not till they hit the big time that they can afford to live off rugby only and lots have degrees and shit, with the salary they offer it makes sense to pay for some education, they will need it one day.......

and thats relevant how? Its like saying if lawyers weren't intelligent they would be picking up rubbish. They have a skill level others can't match so they are paid well for it, whether its good at rugby, good at selling shit, running a bar is irrelevant.

http://xtramsn.co.nz/sport/0,,4985-2552310,00.html

Sounds like a reasonable compromise

Now what other dirty laundry will be aired prior to any games being played?

Wombigino who cares what the All Blacks would be doing if they weren't being paid for playing rugby. Sounds like a bit of jealously to me. They would not all be picking up rubbish off the curb which sounds like a job that would be beneath you.

Sounds like the mediation sorted things out. $80,000 seems like a good compromise

Re: $80,000, as well as appaearing a good compromise it's also a bloody relief.

Now let's get on with doin' the bizz of winning the WC.

about time......

80 K is decent imo....

Yeah pleased it's all sorted. I'm sure some of the new abs wouldn't have given a shit to be honest but seems fair to both sides.

Hopefully Rob Nichol will be banished.

hey llok, these cunts get to hang out with Charlotte Dawson and marry 'ex-models', go into business making orange juice or commentating on TV.

Surely that is worth the $40k bonus.
Money can't buy you that....


And Murray Mexted is not gay, right?

about time

lets hope this matter can be put to bed & we can get on with the rugby

as this pay dispute has kinda over shadowed two weeks of amazing results on the field for the AB's'

the 10 points from the first two rounds is a record, beating the 9 scored in 97.....

that year was pretty good......

we are on track for a bigger year this time around!

Agreement Reached On Bonus Dispute
30/07/2003 02:11 PM

The New Zealand Rugby Union and the New Zealand Rugby Players Association have settled their dispute over the All Blacks Rugby World Cup bonuses.

The NZRU will pay the players an $80,000 bonus each if they go through the Rugby World Cup undefeated and win the tournament, the NZRU and the NZRPA said in a joint statement today. The bonus payment is structured in the following manner:

Pool match win $ 2,000

Quarter-final win $13,000

Semi-final win $15,000

Final win $50,000

looks like they could get bonuses of up to $83,000 if they go through unbeaten?