All Blacks = Over paid losers.

John Mitchell adopted a secretive, centralised and un-accountable setup, which to casual observers looked like a dictator surrounding himself with sycophants (like his dish water weak captain Rueben Thorne).

But we were told to trust him, trust his erratic selection policy (like Nonu and Corey Flynn????), trust in his anal hesitancy in fielding his best team, trust his apparent dislike of uppity spirited players like Cullen and especially Mehrtens as building a team reather than crushing dissent, trust his isolating of the All Blacks into a cotton wool la la land were they don't play actual rugby (and they look like it last night!!).

We were told to shut up and uncritically accept that he had a plan, and a journey. We were told to get behind a team that was off hand, alienated and isolated - and played last night's semi-final with a disgraceful lack of urgency and desperation that fits an over pampered bunch of boff heads free loading on the back of the NEw Zealand rugby public.

Well, the emperor has no clothes, and we have painfully discovered that the All Blacks are hopeless under pressure, with nothing going on in the top two inches.

Hopefully, we will now review our game from top to bottom. The Super 12 is destroying New Zealand rugby, and we need to smash the stranglehood Canterbury has on the NZRFU. We need to re-invigorate the NPC and de-centralise our game so that once more is NZ rugby is strong because BOP runs the Ball, Otago rucks, Waikato plays 10 man rugby, Auckland has big Polys, Taranaki and Southland are hard nosed men who sort the weak from the strong, etc etc. The Super 12 has gutted variation in our game and we only know how to play one style.

We also need to stop 1 or 2 super 12 franchises dominating our domesic program, because its gutting the game in the provincial areas.

Typical reaction to an All Blacks loss. I still think they play pretty good.. just maybe not as good as Australia did.

I'd like to see anyone here do better.

Typical female post and typical of the feminisation of New Zealand society that has led us to place where losing is seen as OK as long you try.

Second is nowhere. Winning is what the All Blacks are all about. You might accept second best as OK, I don't.

These are the best paid, most pampered elite sportsmen in New Zealand, and they don't even try very hard when the men are asked to stand up.

When it all gets to hard they don't stand uplike men to be counted, they just meekly lose then bleat excuses like a bunch of schoolgirls.

Well, On Saturday 15th November the NZRFU and John Mitchell inc's. All Blacks ran out of excuses. They played poorly despite the preparation, the money, everything they asked for they were given.

No more excuses. Time to accept that we are not as good as we like to think and make the changes we need to be the BEST again. This is the second time, after France in 1999. Only idiots don't learn from there mistakes. Are we idiots?

The game of rugby that New Zealand was once good at is not the same game now.

So very very very true Smiley. Professionalism may see us reduced to an also ran in rugby, because the money is in Europe, Japan and Oz.

How ironic is it for NZ as the nation that championed professionalism in rugby suddenly realising that the genie is out of the bottle and its fucking our rugby up the ass.

Reign in your hysteria fish_boy. You sound like you are about to hyper ventilate.

Whilst most of your points are grounded in some fact or truth you completely overstate the conclusions which you glean from those observations.

Before this ONE game the ABs had a good record and (World Cups apart) have had a very good record in the last few years. You are just scratching for comment...trying to illicit some nationalistic 'bites'.

Personally I don't really give two shits that we lost. I would rather we won but I don't really care. New Zealanders vest too much in what is an over complicated and unpopular game with a "World Cup" that is that in name only. I would much prefer we had some measure of success in the world's most popular (and beautiful) game.

And your comment about the Super12 is just shite.....attacking rugby is great. It wont always pay off....I am glad that if we do have to foster a game as uninspiring as Rugby it is the attacking form rather than the Englsih version of the game.

heh.. it's hilarious when men try to pull the "you're a girl" card.

D&C: Look at the score board and get back to me.

this was the game that matter and they choked and what makes it worst is that they lost to those redneck dingo fuckers!

So says someone who knows very little about sports.

I largely agree with what you say although I think the super 12 works as a comp apart from the fact it concentrates the top players in a few provinces. Rugby has moved on and if we go back to how we used to be we will be even bigger losers.

I do find it incredible the mistakes we repeated, too long without rugby, a coach picking a bunch of yes men and no credible captain, players playing out of position (McDonald is a fullback, Muliaina a centre), a team without a plan b and no determination on the field. Anyone seeing the way the AB's used the ball when they had it in the first half would understand that.

http://onesport.nzoom.com/sport_detail/0,1278,236258-2-16,00.html

sums it up far better than I can.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sports/rugby/worldcup/rugbyworldcupstorydisplay.cfm?storyID=3534535&thesection=sport&thesubsection=rugby&thesecondsubsection=allblacks

David Kirk sums it up.

"...I don't care to analyse much further why it is that New Zealand rugby teams do not contain enough of the ferocious will to win that they once did.

I don't wish to go down that route because I think it leads to a hollow core that is frightening.

Take your pick of modern "isms" - populism, socialism, me too-ism, not fair-ism, free ride-ism - they all add up to mediocrity and that's exactly what we got on a warm Saturday evening in Sydney as the dream of a second World Cup crown slipped away..."

world chumps

I can't help but wonder how things might have turned out if Graham Henry was the coach.....

realistially, henry should be the coach to take us to the next world cup (its certainly not mitchell, even if he's not sacked right now)...

unfortunately, i can see politics getting in the way of him being appointed

John Mitchell has to go. No variation in his team and no plan b. Carlos also has to go. Can't kick, can't tackle and can't pass properly. ghe singl handedly lost us the game with his intercept try.

Where the fuck was Merhtens. Big games aren't won on flair, they are won on setting a good forward platform and through consistency.

Aaron Mauger shouldn't have been there either and Robbiue Deans shouldn't be able to coach the Crusaders (this coming from someone born in ChCh).

I'm no sport fan, so my points may be way wrong, but it seems to me that All Blacks of the past would loose too. This is because as I said the game is not the same. We relied on the game being our national sport, kids played from primary school. Now that it is professional, that is simply not good enough. Sacking every coach who doesn't win the world cup is a bit stupid. You don't sack CEOs of large companies on their first bad year. Otherwise you just have a bunch of CEOs with no experence to make a company perform. The game is professional, but rugby in New Zealand is not.

He a story that partially explains where I am coming from when I say the feminisation of our society is partly to blame. When I was seven, I played my first season of rugby. Some boy hit me, and I ran to the sideline and said tmourously to my father, "Daddy that boy just hit me." My Dad replied, "Well, what do you want me to do about it? Get back out there and hit him back!" And accompanied by gales of laughter from the assembled parents thats exactly what I did.

Now that was adults letting children sort it out for themselves. Lessons learnt? Be a bit more independent, Mum and Dad won't hold your hand forever. Stick up for yourself and get a bit tougher, otherwise people will walk all over you.

I have a six year nephew. A boy at his school keeps kicking him. He, of course, is not allowed to retaliate, instead he has to duitfully report each incident to his teacher who has raised the problem with the boys parents who deny itsa happening... So what happens? Eventually, my nephew told his grandma, who said to him, "Well, if he does it again kick him back."

Next time it happened my nephew (bless his little cotton socks) whacked this kid one right on the smacker (by all reports). Result? My sister has to attend a meeting with the school councellor, the teacher, the other boys and his family. She did of course tell the school to get stuffed, her son will look after himself if the school won't.

Lesson learnt? Its better to be a victim, because that won't cause a ruckus. Its better not to stick up for yourself but meekly accept what is dealt out and hope the referee (teacher) rules in your favour.

These current All Blacks are the products of that sort of value structure.

at that story, so true. Like Malcolm X said,



I raised similar points in talking about the feminisation of education, where competition and physical attributes are not wanted.

fish_boy.

Have you ever stopped to think the essense of sport....the reason why it is such a major part in our lives.....the reason why 80000 people were at Telstra stadium on Saturday...arises from its unpredictability.

Its not the All Blacks birthright to win the World Cup....neither NZ's.

The reason the Wallabies were totally overjoyed at the end of that game was as much to do with beating the All Blacks as it was getting through to the final of the world cup. It was a one off game between 2 great rivals for the biggest prize around.

Have you stopped to think how well the Aussies played. Fuck...I can hardly remember a knock-on in the whole 80 minutes from them. No mean feat when they had the ball for most of the game.

Australia played out of their skins.....they will admit that. they saved their best in 2 years for Saturday night.

Its unfortunate we lost.....but on the night they were better. Easy of that. The essense of sport won out.

This quote from you annoys me

"and they don't even try very hard when the men are asked to stand up".

They would have had nothing in the tank. to even suggest they "didn't try" is just absolute bollux.

They tried their hearts out. As did Australia.

It was the World Cup semi-final.

And as for "over-paid...pampered".

Such is sport fish. The AB's are not even close to what happens overseas. Pull your tall poppy syndrome right in China. The revenue they earn...and the prestige they give NZ.......like it or not.....they deserve decent renumeration.


I'm sorry...but if your attitude was consistent throught 3.8m people....I would leave this country after what happened on Saturday.

Yeah agree Trapper....

Anyone who suggests that losing one game of sport is evidence of some systemic failing in Rugby Union throughout this nation, the NPC, the Super 12 and professionalism is talking out of their nether regions. Games of sport can go either way and that is why we enjoy them....a game can be determined by ONE bad pass, ONE lucky bounce or ONE piece of brilliance.

Yep games of sport can go either way, what non sporting types like fishboy don't realise is there are 4 or 5 other rugby teams who turn up expecting to do exactly what we do and there fans expect them to win in the same way we do, the mathematics tend to suggest 4 countries are going to come away bitterly disapointed.

Mitchell should remain coach, he has one of the best records of any of our coaches bar Lochore and really who else is there at the moment, give him another two years and then see where things are heading.

And the provincial nations are not weak because of the Super 12 they are weak because of the introduction of professionalism and we can't reverse that so why whinge about it?

Where were all these critisms when your team was winning?

You guys really have fuck all loyalty.
Its sad to c a country turn its back on its team over and over again.

I love rugby and would love to play representing a country. But one things for sure i would never fukin play for New Zealand, not with supporters like u lot.

I don't agree with you. I think the All Blacks are in many ways a mirror on our society, and when I look at the All Blacks I don't like what I see. They meekly surrendered to the ferocity of the Aussie onslaught. That to me is weak. I don't damn if we win or lose, but I care if we don't play with fire, ferocity and measured agression.

But worse, they don't have the guts to say sorry. Where is Rueben Thorne saying "We got taught a lesson, we played like pussies, we let them push us around, and I have got a bitter taste in my mouth and I'm sorry and I'm angry and next time I go out there I am going to rip some Wallabie's arm off and beat him to death with the wet end." We don't get that. What do we get? They just whine "Oh but we are all really really really gutted to, you know. We can't win them all, just give a break you meanies."

Apart from feminisation, I firmly believe these All Blacks are the children of the 80's, the Gordon Gecko/Roger Douglas greed is good generation. They come from a time when the honest guy - the farmer, factory worker, the manufacturing exporter, the corner store owner - were bankrupted by an insane ideology at war with its own people.

These guys grew up seeing property speculators, used car dealers and money market speculators being rewarded for lawless sharp practice with fabulous wealth, conspicious consumption and knighthoods. No wonder they are part of a gravy train culture that thinks "I've made it, I'm an All Black, I'll do 4-5 years here then bugger off to somewhere else for twice the money and half the effort." Welcome to the Russell Coutts generation of sports mercenaries, available to highest bidder.

The trouble is, our mercenaries ran into a team that comes from a country that wasn't ripped apart by the greed elite, and believe in old fashioned things like pride, committment and patriotism. And at the end of the day hired guns who pay lip service to the All Black tradition whilst looking for the highest bidder will always lose to a similarily well funded team with fire, committment and pride.

And that is what hurts the most, not losing a stupid game.

I find it incredible that people can try and blame the loss of the AB's on the weekend was somehow due to the "feminisation of our society" and due to "socialism". This is just political point scoring at its worst. Have the people who have made these claims actually thought about what they are saying? surely not, these must be pure knee-jerk reactionary comments, because they dont stand up to scrutiny. I also remember these kinds of comments after the last Olympics.
If you people who make these claims want to be taken the slightest bit seriously why not try and back it up with some research - are countries that are more to the left less likely to succeed in sport? has history proven this? i know that during Britains extreme lurch to the right under Thatchers tories -I believe there was no subsequent success for British sports teams, in fact British sport went downhill .... do Scandanavian countries, who are considerably more left than New Zealand, have shocking sporting statistics ? no .... I believe the argument is incredibly flawed. Im my opinon this is just another case of purist idealogues wanting to blame their poliitcal enemies for anything bad that may occour in that country, its political point scoring at its worst and an utter joke.

Commitment and Pride doesnt put food in ur mouth.

And i am sure Rueben Would have liked to have said things like that but come on man, He's the captain of the All Blacks, he probabley gets watched more than the PM and one PC slip up causes about 4 headlines in the next days Herald.

Where were all these great pearls of wisdmon when the All blacks were winning? 22-2-4 i say again thats a pretty good fukin record.

Wheres ur commitment FB?

Fish_boy.

What a load of crap.

Nothing but over-blown rhetoric.

It was a game of rugby.

Oh....and by the way....the Aussies stand to pocket a lot more than the All Blacks if they win the world cup.

Can I ask you this....if you were working for an organisation that COINED it totally off your back in a corporate environment...would you want a slice of the pie?

The AB's are only asking for what is theirs. It wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the players.

When the bankrupt the NZRU with their demands.....I'll agree with you.

Until then.

No

What a load of fucken crap Fish boy, the all blacks didn't get beaten because they played like pussies, tell Ben Darwin and all the other wallabies that were bruised and cut that the all blacks are pussies.

They got beaten by a better team on the day with a better strategy.

And to correct you,



Name any top line All Black this applies to, i can only think of dumped ones that have buggered off and wouldn't you do the same, are you not a slut to your employer and would bugger off to a similar employer with better prospects for double the money?



Yachting has always been about mercenaaries, Dalton, Dixon, Shnackenberg (sp) are all examples of it, it's the nature of that sport, to compare that with Rugby is a bit off the mark.

What a load os rubbish fishman, have you ever played a game or had a fight where the other team/person simply out played you ?

To say they were weak and shit is rude, aussie didnt let us in the game from the start, we had our backs against the wall and didnt recover, calling them weak is a shit attitude from you and your a supporter NZ rugby could do without !

I'd love to see what you would have done in their situation,the aussies who were playing the game of their lives in probably one of the hardest places to play sport and because we fell short we suck ?

get over it mate.

Weak!

We played most of the game with no ball.

The Aussies had a mortgage on it.

We conceeded 1 try!!!

Thats not weak!

Often I think you are on the mark fish_boy but your big spiels of today and yesterday are just nonsense...

The other posters are legitimately taking you to task over this. I think you have overstated then point and no shame in a retraction.

Better to retreat and save the aircraft than to push a bad position (from TopGun).....wise words for ya ol chum....

the_Dude I agree, it is just a game of rugby. Just another game in the professional sports circus of the Murdoch media empire.

It used to be our national sport. Another thing taken from the people and given over to money and corporate greed.

I know the Aussies will be well rewarded, but the sickness in our society is that we seem to no longer believe in getting well paid for a job well done, and taking pride in your craft for its own sake. Here a common mantra is do as quickly and as shoddily and as cheaply as possible as charge what the market can bear.

$toffz, you don't seem to see where I am coming from. I don't care about the fact we lost a game of rugby. But I am sad and a little bit bitter that the All Blacks are now just another product, like baked beans or widgets, to be sold to an audience of willfully and blissfully ignorant concerned only in the morally empty persuit of disposable consumption - in entertainment, life, everywhere.

I no longer have any committment to the All Blacks because I no longer think they represent us and all the things we like to think are good about about being New Zealanders, things like toughness, resilience, teamwork, etc.

I think they represent Adidas, Newscorp limited and not a hell of a lot else, and its shows when the heat comes on.

fish_boy.

You are sooooooo wide of the mark my friend.

A game of rugby as being indicative of the fall of our society as we know it!!!!!

For fucks sake.

Maybe we could look at violent crime....unemployment....p abuse......as being a sign of the decay of our society.

But a game of rugby!

I've known some rugby fanatics in my time....

You've just surpassed all of them.

Are you saying that Saturday night is the end result of 20 years of social decay?

Pfffft

Crock.

Bollocks Fish_Boy, what you saw was one coach outthinking another simple as that.

Interesting you brought up super 12 parallels because if you look closely at the game you would see the wallabies playing exactly as the brumbies did in there hey-day (which they haven't done all season) and we just didn't have the game-plan to counter it.

The 1997 super-12 final the auckland blues faced the brumbies at the height of there powers, the brumbies controlled all the possesion in the game, recycled just as the wallabies did, had all of the field position but the blues still won. Why ? They kept making there tackles, they didn't give away penalites and they waited for the few opportunities that would come there way and maximised them.

Interesting on the weekend that it was one try each, penalties told the story. a story of the All Blacks panicking at not having the ball, they tried to spread wide to score rather than going up the middle first and the more the tried the more they fumbled and panicked because the aussies held the ball for such a long time whenever they got it. Interesting that most of the players weren't around when the brumbies in there hey day were playing this type of game.

Also interesting eddie jones used to coach the brumbies and that he went on record as saying 'we have the game to beat the all-blacks'

We were out-thought, it should have been obvious the aussies would go this way and Deans and Mitchell should have had the team prepared. If we played them this week I am absolutely convniced we would win, don't write off the All Blacks.

Write off the successive coaches who aren't in the league of Woodward and Jones when it comes to strategies in these big games

I think people are forgetting just how woeful the ABs actually were. Remember that passage in the first half when we finally got the ball and just passed it to static runners who fell on the ground and fed it back, no passion, no urgency at all. All game there were not the hard runners putting there bodies on the line. There was also no plan b from the coach and no inspiration from the captain. The question is why wasn't that commitment there. If it was a close loss in a hard fought game I would think differently.

droper - you miss the point entirely, its the capitalist extremes of the rogernomes that FB is talking about, not socialism.

toffz - I felt uneasy about some aspects of the AB's this year, but once we got into the year you get behind the team. Thats what commitment is, not bagging them. Now the world cup is over its time to say what people really think.

the dude - your comment about the aussies being paid more only applies to the world cup, generally they are paid less. In other words they are paid on performance, not just fro making the team. Maybe tahts the way rugby in NZ needs to go.

I for one had a good vent yesterday re the game and I will still be supporting the All Blacks. We won two trophys this year and got the Bledisloe cup back for the first time in 6 or 7 years.

I still and always will support them too. I would actually only want to see a few players dropped, reuben thorne and spencer mainly. The rest I support although a few are too old to be there for the next world cup and they would be better being replaced sooner rather than later (spencer falls into that category too).

Justahalf, i was responding more to David Kirk's ranting, which since it has gone to prinbt has been echoed by some very sad people like Murray Deaker.... and by some writing into todays NZ herald letters page.

Where was Kirks rant? I missed that one.

Carlos Spencer was instrumental in being home the Tri-Nations and Bledisloe Cup though?

If his forwards were going forward he would have torn up the Aussies in that semi too, the only time he got the ball going forward was because it was quick turnover ball and he created the try for Thorne

There is nothing wrong with Carlos's selection. No way in hell would Merthens have been able to deliver up to the standards that Carlos placed this year.

The AB's was beaten on the day by a beter team. I always said I will make my judgement on how far the AB's get in the RWC, the HUGE hidings they gave SA and Aus in the tri-nations was nothing to go by.

Never this year did the AB's play basic rugby, it was all about looking good, making funny passes and trying to be "cool". The Aussie saw that and on the night that it matter took advantage of it. You would have thought after the Wales debacle that Mitchell would have taken the boys back to basics but NO ... they paid the price for it.

Good luck England, smaQ those Aussies !!

fish boy, your making things sound waaaaay worse than they actually are, if we had won on the weekend would you have had the same rant ? because a few posts earlier you said it wasnt about one game of rugby, am I right?


Where are all you kiwi traits now ? because this is when a true fan will support them, loyalty, pride, you say the AB's have lost this ? rubbish, it sounds like you are the one losing things!

ha ha poor fish_boy............... the flamings continue

pffft - flaming by these poor wretches doen't bother me, they are but toilet tissue stuck on the bum cheeks of the great internet flaming scheme of things. Now back in the summer of 2001/02 - THEN people knew how to flame.

I remember back when I was a nOObie here and I made a bunch of very worthwhile points (as usual ) mixed in with one point on which I was mistaken. I retracted that one and issued an apology.

fish_boy gave me advice at that time or rather a credo which he operated under whenever he was engaged in internet rough and tumble - Never apologise, Never retract, always cling determinedly to your position in the knowledge that you are ALWAYS right....

Since that time I have seen the man go on to post a number of good ideas and opinions and find more than not I agree with him. I have also seen him follow the philosophy expoused above (which I have paraphrased as I can't remember exactly what he said) from time to time, this thread possibly the most notable example

Mitchell should go, he single handedly took away the fear factor the AB's had over teams, NZ not allowed to ruck, WTF??

we were critised 4 years ago for not being hard enough when the french played dirty, 4 years later BINGO repeat performances

for the record

Henry for coach

We should wait and see how we go against France but dickhead Mitchell has kept the same team and has made no changes. I think Carter should come in for Mauger and Mealamu should wqrm the bench although a lot of the blame with respect to the line outs fallssquarely on Reuben Thorne's shoulders. Wtf couldn't he get the ball thrown to the front?

Blame the coach for that policy in the lineouts. The french game will unfortunately tell us nothing, its a second string french team. The most it will tell us is whether the personnel have the ability to rise to a difficult situation, but its closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

I'm over rugby ..... well for another 4 years at least

It's easy to tell when fish guts is wrong though, he won't respond to you, it's as good as a retraction.

Stylin, Devine is starting instead of Marshall, I reckon he is better than both Kelleher and Marshall, in fact next year I hope Marshall is finally done away with and Danny Lee is given a go.

Otherwise no complaints about the team to start against France.

I disagree about Marshall ronin, throughout the tournament he has been a rock, he wont be the half back at the next WC but I think he has a little left in the tank for NZ rugby.

how old is Devine anyway ?

and Lee ?

Thoughts on the Carter???

I think it was a little unfair, the way he was treated during the Cup. He was showing brilliant form in the early pool games, he can obviously kick pretty well, and yet he got almost no gametime in the crunch. I would think that a coach should pick his team on current form, and Carter was hot. Is this more evidence of Mitchell's inflexibility?

Devine is 26, Lee is 25, Justin Marshall 30.

One thing is clear out of that three, Marshall will be to old for the next world cup.

I would rate Mauger ahead of Carter as well.

Marshall not just played well but was definitely the leader on the paddock too. I think he played better than he ever has before, and I'm certainly not a big Marshall fan.

No not at all, I have said all I have to say, people are free to disagree, there is no point in going around in circles.

Carter should have been given a go in the semi though. Fresh legs and an enthusiastic player who was in good form unlike Mauger who has been injured all year.

So, I'm just watching the game now (goddam delayed coverage in the US!) and, really, sure the ABs didn't fire, but it really wasn't as bad as half of you lot, and the media, and everyone has made it out to be. The NZ defense was actually pretty good, pretty bloody good to be honest. The amount of time the Wallabies spent in the NZ 22 to be denied any tries was remarkable.

NZ were outplayed, but they didn't really play that badly. Just think... if that loopy pass from Carlos hadn't been picked off, the score could very easily have been NZ 17, Aus 15. Would you all have been bitching so much then?

Still, I'm looking forward to the France game - it's just a pity it's not the same matchup in the final.

Why can't the play off for 3rd and 4th be a curtain raiser for the final?

Kind of agree Seattle.. it was such a close game... could've gone either way... i think overall, we're the better team.. England will beat Aus easily in the final.. NZ vs Eng would've been a much more interesting final.

I don't, however, blame the media for bagging Mitchell and Co as much as they have.. he's pretty much treated them with contempt for 2 years... it's no wonder they've come down so hard on him...

I don't think the game was that close, the wallabies won fairly easily and the AB's were never really in the game.

i just think that if a few very small things had happened differently, we would've won... ie. the pass being intercepted... that was a lucky try in a lot of ways... intercepts don't often come off... and Rokoko's try could have been awarded early on.. it was the right call, but if it had gone the other way, it would've been a much different game...

I still think our performance was sub-standard, and I'm not trying to excuse it... I can't really fault any of our players.. I think we (as Sean Fitzpatrick said before the game) have the best 15 players in the world on the field. But a champion team will always beat a team of champions, and I think that's what happened.

I guess a lot of that comes back to coaching, and administration. I wouldn't be overly upset with Mitchell being sacked (and especially Deans)... so long as it wasn't just a knee jerk reaction, but the result of a proper analysis of their performance.

I've always had doubts about the entire NZRU administration, and structure. I think there's far too much room for politics (there's still a massive anti-Auckland sentiment, and there's just no room for that kind of thing, in a country this small). And to me, any problems are always traced all they way back to the top. the NZRU might blame John Mitchell, but in the end, they were the ones who appointed him.

It's the game no one wants to play, but it's a big money spinners for the IRB, 70,000 ticket sales for tonights game, if you had it before the final you would lose all that money.........


IMO it should be before the final, but from a players view it would be pretty hard to play a game hours before the real final that your not involved in because you had a SHOCKER in the Semi

Good call Fitzy it ultimately all comes down to money I suppose.
On a positive note 40-13 over the French is a great result and shows that maybe we had a bad one off game. Good to see us finish off our season positively.

It was a reasonable result.

Interesting to see reuben thorne and mitchell disagreeing, thorne thinks we need to reconsider our tactics, mitchell steadfastly sticks to his game plan being the perfect one.

i wasn't suprised to see us win by so much (and I can't believe all the disbelievers who thought we were going to lose.. there are obviously a lot of people who're emotional about things still).

but it was still kind of a depressing game... every time we scored, all i could thing was "why the @#$%# didn't we play like that on saturday?!?!"

Thorne is correct. You can never attack all out all of the time. I read John McEnroes book and he had a system for matches based on traffic lights. If he was playing well and wasn't under pressure it would be green so he would go for his shots. If it got a little bit tight and the game was dragging on amber (be a bit more cautious but still go for the right shot) and finally red light, shut up shop and play percentages.

You can't play high risk rugby all the time. Against the Aussies we couldn't lay a forward platform so it certainly wasn't a green light for attacking rugby. I like Mitchells style of rugby but it needs to be adapted to suit different scenarios.

Its good to see the All Blacks can still win the ones that don't count.

The game still mattered. Every test match matters except against the really shit teams that we plaster by 100 points.