abduction -question

Everyone seems to have missed this bit...

If an armed man aproached you and demanded your baby would you just hand it over?

I know wouldn't and I'm male with no children yet. I'm sure the emotional attachment between mother and baby is stronger than I'll even know. Any other animal would certainly risk death to defend its babies...

yeah, i've talked about this with my wife.... she'd risk death to defend anyone dear to her...

i guess some people are just afraid of guns... the response TV trains you to have....

im not too sure, but did he demand the child or did he just grab it????

but i agree with you trapper, surely you would rather be shot yourself trying to defend your baby rather than face the consequences of the child being taking and possibly killed.

Sad story this one

Your "wife" Vargind?

You sneaky monkey?!

No-one could judge what they would do unless faced with the situation. There are so many variables, like how serious they thought the gunman was. If the mother seriously thought she was going to be killed then handing over the baby would make more sense. If she was killed the gunman could then take the baby if he wanted anyway and nothing would have been gained at all. The fact that she handed over the baby means that she must have thought he was very serious.

and if the gunman took the baby that the mother offered to him and killed it, that mother might feel kinda shit!

and if she says no and he kills her, what would he do to the baby then.

well at least you would know that you did your motherly duty and protected your child to the best of your abilty.

Or maybe the gunman said "give me the baby or I'll shoot it then I'll shoot you"......doesn't leave the mother with much choice then, does it?

Dont you guys pay attention????

Firstly, the child was being taken for a walk by the parents niece. I dunno the exact age of the niece but I suspect that she was younger than the mother being the neice and all... mighta been a teenager even?

Secondly the gunman pointed the gun at the dog and when the niece made moves to protect the dog he snatched the baby. I would guess that the niece was not aware of what was happening until it was too late.

As you were...

It's very unlikely he would have shot the mother if this is a kidnapping as it wouldn't be good to add murder to the charges. If its not a kidnapping then the baby probabilly won't turn up alive, either way its better to not hand the bub over.

doh, well this thread can head to the bit-bucket then heheh

What are the other possible motivations if not kidnapping?

Use your imagination PFunk...

I don't have the imagination of a criminal, Dave........

Everyone has the motivation of a criminal hehehe

Until presented with this situation i dont think that anyone can truley say either way. I would like to think that i would not...

It turns out Donna was there...

Donna and 2 nieces were there, and the story is a bit fishy.

Yesterday the guy threatened the dog, and snatched the baby
This morning he threatened one of the nieces and snatched the baby
and now the police are refusing to release the real story...

bit fishy or unclear. Bit fishy implies that something funny is going on that they aren't saying. That is highly unlikely. What is more likely is that not all the details have come out clearly in the media yet, and may not do until he is caught.

I'd say the kid is dead.

No ransom demands, no leads...

Unless they're suppressing info, the police really dont seem to have a clue what the fuck is going on.

Gotta admit I don't think the kid will be coming back anytiem soon, hope im wrong thou.

It's probabilly someone who has just snapped on one of the issues she or her husband has been a party to

i saw on tv that apparently the gunmen put the gun to the neices head.
Did you see the plea the mother made?

Ok, I heard my info on the news but I guess you can't trust everything you hear in the news huh?

The dog part was that he was freaked out towards the dog. Bowl table has got the other bit correct.

I actually was thinkin about the woman a few years back that claimed her kids where abducted, in truth she had drowned them, so in conclusion this could be one of those scandles..

any feel the same..

Blittzz....:

"The Dingo Stole my baby!"

?????

Ya, purty much..
Od init..?

Blittzz could be aye... heheh

I take it you are joking blittzz, otherwise I would have to question your sanity with a suggestion like that.

justahalf: But the police agree with blittzz "we are looking at *all* options" so are they insane too?

hang on a sec, doh answered my own question. Blittzz your crazy mate...

I read about that the man demanded the dog be moved out of the way first, then put the gun to the nieces head and demanded the baby.

The lady, Donna, was in charge of someone else's child as well as her own and as the kidnapper had the gun to the nieces head she could hardly refuse to hand over the baby. The fact that she complied with the kidnappers wishes to save the life of her niece doesn't imply that she wanted to hand over the baby or that she handed her over too easily.

If I had a child I wouldn't want to hand it over to a stranger with a gun, and I would fight to the death defending either of my precious nieces, so I guess I would do what Donna did, since she did have to choose and I haven't had to.

haha trapper. The reason that this is a ridiculous suggestion is because if you were concocting a story like that you would not involve 2 young girls who could muck up the story when talking to the police. You would just make it yourself confronted by the gunman.

Justahalf: I was agreeing with you there dude...

oops - that second bit was directed at blitzz, not you.

btw: If I was going to make up the story then I'd probabilly have the 2 girls there too as they make excelent witnesses (they wouldn't know about the plan of course)

Like diva says, she (Donna) probably did the right thing. At least there's a chance of saving all the lives rather than losing one for sure for not handing over the baby. Hopefully she (Baby Kahu) can still be saved.

Fence-smasher; Assuming the offender would have gunned down 3 people in cold blood in the middle of the day

Or shot one and then stolen the baby, which could well have been the case.

It's pretty unlikely the guy would have shot anyone. From the sounds of it he was hired to kidnap not kill.

You wanna risk YOUR nieces life based on his job description?

risk a niece or let the baby die, its a tricky choice...

Well, she didn't know for sure that the baby was going to die, but she did know for sure that if the guy shot her niece in the head, her niece would die.

I jst find it odd how there were no witnesses to this event apart from the lil girl.. or was there..?

the two nieces and a lady that lived in the street apparently.

diva:

the only thing she knew for sure was the guy was goig to take her baby. everything else is just speculation

I think you could be pretty sure that if someone is shot in the head they would die. If some crazy is holding a gun to someone's head you can call their bluff if you're prepared to be wrong.

as I said, there was only one thing she knew would happen for sure... and it happened

so what are you saying?

Haven't we already done that bit?

trapper - I think if you were put in that situation you'd do the same. But since you weren't you don't know for sure.

Police haven't ruled out a connection between the lady killed a few metres away and the abduction. Just saw on news.

I would be very surprised to find them connected. That would mean the baby abduction had no political motive at all, and why would a gunman wanting a baby approach 3 people and a dog (at he obviously was freaked out by) to steal a baby, when he could have waited for a woman by herself with a baby.